Dislocated shoulders?

[Jim Callen]

So I was workign on totally laid out turns yesterday and partially dislocated my shoulder on my toeside. It popped back in after a few moments, and it's pretty darn sore today.

So my question: how often does this happen? This is a first for me, albeit I don't do super laid out turns all that often. Perhaps my shoulders just aren't designed for it?

[tex1230]

...Like my old coach used to say -

"Keep your damn hands off the snow and that sh!t won't happen"

[utahcarver]

Please be careful out there. I tore my rotator cuff in my left shoulder several years ago reaching for the snow. I had to take a summer off to have the repair done. You do not want this to happen to your season.

Ride safe!

Mark

[queequeg]

So I was workign on totally laid out turns yesterday and partially dislocated my shoulder on my toeside. It popped back in after a few moments, and it's pretty darn sore today.

So my question: how often does this happen? This is a first for me, albeit I don't do super laid out turns all that often. Perhaps my shoulders just aren't designed for it?

I did the same thing last year. I was laying down a turn and in my descent, my elbow caught the snow and snapped back behind me as I moved downhill. Popped back in as soon as I exited the turn. Ouch! Not fun!

My doctor told me that I would probably have issues with it popping out in the future as a consequence, but so far, I have not had a repeat incident. I keep my hands somewhat in front of me now, not wanting to repeat that incident.

[KingCrimson]

Lacrosse Shoulder Pads

My hardbootin' mentor at age 58 only complains about injuries anymore, and he is apparently prone to shoulder injuries. They are light, low profile, and protect you from seperations and cuff tears.

If you look at my profile picture, the rotation about half a second after the picture was taken is textbook shoulder seperating technique.

[BlueB]

I had very sore left shoulder (trailing arm - goofy) few seasons ago, caused by bouncing on snow. When you look on it now the end of collar bone looks somehow out of place. However, I don't know if it was like that before, as I started paying attention only after the injury. I had some problems with that upper/back/left area of body even before, so it's probably all related.

Now I try to EC with hands quite a bit forward:
Trailing arm on toe side up and 90deg at the elbow, providing some protection to the head/face;
Leading arm on heel side almost straight forward, rather then up.
This way the levers are shorter - less likely to be twisted behind, and you get some shock absorption.
On the very soft or choppy/bumpy snow keep the hands off the bloody stuff!

[caspercarver]

when i tried making turns like photo two, i never threw my shoulder out but it was sore a lot. i make turns now like photo one, no problem so far.

[Petrol]

I dislocated my left shoulder, Again, a couple weeks ago....
I feel your pain

[Civ]

Partially tore both rotators at the same time skateboarding once. I was doing big toeside pendulum slides (For those of you who do not know what Im talking about, look at the video below) and my slide glove cuffs got caught under the slide pucks and stopped my arms in place while my body kept moving downhill. I have never been the same, anytime I fall snowboarding and put pressure on my shoulder it hurts like it did the first time. Have had to end my day of riding early a few times from minimal falls that just tweaked the shoulder enough.

Its enough to keep my hands off the snow though. And I cant even do slides anymore, way too easy to re injure.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/y2fAYk4Anf0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/y2fAYk4Anf0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

toeside slides. Not the run I hurt myself on btw.

[Jim Callen]

Yeah, I think I'm done with the extremecarving experiements.

[Snowman]

Blew mine out 7 or 8 times one season, I learn things the hard way. Then that summer I crushed it longboarding down Ryan Gulch Rd. in Silverthorne. 6hours and about 50k later I was rebuilt and on my way to rehab. Its still not 100% maybe 90% on a good day. I have learned to live with it and adjusted my riding style in order to not do any more damage. To this day if I huck a snowball with my right arm I will cry like a little girl and this is 7 years later. Recovery from shoulder injuries takes time so be careful with it. I NEVER want to go through that again, having my colon shortened last winter was much more pleasent if you can imagine that. Be patient let it heal. My longboard is now a coat rack as I have found pavement way to unforgiving.

Think Snow

[Keenan]

Go see a physical therapist and have them give you a strengthening routine. Had I done this on my first dislocation it might have prevented the second one. Ice it a lot, don't reach overhead for at least a week. Both of my shoulders have metal screws and pins. The p.t. can save you from a long recovery and possible re-injury.

[jike9830]

just whacked mine out on big time committed toeside Sunday--on steroid treatment now--just sucks--the idea I was injured hurt more than the physical injury.:(

[Dr D]

wear armour it pays in the long run. any of the armour vests with plastic shoulder cups will do.

for the already injured I recomend kinesiotape to allow you full Range of motion with enough support to prevent reinjury. two pieces of tape should do nicely.:biggthump one supporting the deltoid vertically and one wrapped front to back holding the shoulder in the socket.

[Dr D]

you are describing an acromial-clavicular seperation. they come in three grades depending on how far the clavicle sticks up. there is a tape protocol for that as well. If its supported while it heals it will heal normally. If its not you will have a funny lump on your shoulder for life:biggthump

[BlueB]

I guess I'm stuck with it...

[mike g.]

Mine shoulder pops out every once in a while. Know that it came out it's alot more pron to come out again. I ride with that arm tucked into the body for protection. Mine comes out easy. the way I bend to lift something, once one I was drying off at the pool.. If it comes out again look for a soda, grab it and let it hang down. the muscle will go back in.. DON"T DO LIKE MEL GIBSON, THATS NOT GOOD.

good luck

mike
________
Ferrari 348 specifications (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Ferrari_348)

[Petrol]

...If its not you will have a funny lump on your shoulder for life:biggthump
yep, got mine

[Bobby Buggs]

Totally laid out looks fun but I always worried about catching an arm. Hyperextended my Elbow 2 times one day that was enough.

[KingCrimson]

We need some Evil EC armor!

[Bobby Buggs]

Will I have to pay you royalties when I come out with it:eplus2:

[snowboardfast]

I have dislocated both shoulders and had surgery on both. Left shoulder January 2003 Right shoulder January 2007. tore the Labrium on both due to loose shoulder. I did it by simply moving my arm around while riding. I did not fall on them. Doing EC turns is asking for shoulder injuries. I believe one of the Swoard designers I don't know which either Patrice Or Nils has hurt their shoulder while doing EC. You won't see me trying to drag my arms on the snow at all. I am still riding but am careful. You do not have to EC to carve on a snowboard. You might want to have the shoulder checked to make sure that no bad damage was done. I had a history of my shoulders popping part way out for years.

[gdboytyler]

wear armour it pays in the long run. any of the armour vests with plastic shoulder cups will do...

I do like to EC and I do wear body armour (Rock Gardn Flak Jacket) and it does have the plastic shoulder cups. But I wear the armour due to the possibility of getting T-boned. I didn't think it would help to prevent a shoulder separation.

Heelside EC definitely seems more likely than toeside to produce a shoulder injury. I don't EC when it starts to get a little bumpy.

[Jim Callen]

Heh, holy can of worms batman. I just popped it out and back in. It's sore, but I've been lifting 50 lbs over my head all day with little problem. No armor necessary, no physical therapy, and I'm hitting the slopes in about 6 hours for a nice pow day.

Thanks for the replies, as Evidently it happens quite often.

[KingCrimson]

Will I have to pay you royalties when I come out with it:eplus2:

In stickers.

[Dr D]

I do like to EC and I do wear body armour (Rock Gardn Flak Jacket) and it does have the plastic shoulder cups. But I wear the armour due to the possibility of getting T-boned. I didn't think it would help to prevent a shoulder separation.

Heelside EC definitely seems more likely than toeside to produce a shoulder injury. I don't EC when it starts to get a little bumpy.

not saying it will specifically but it will for sure cut down on shoulder injuries particulary in a yard sale or Tbone situation. Mine have saved me on a pow day when I went endover end down a chute and landed directly on the shoulder on an exposed icy mogul.

[Dave ESPI]

both my shoulders ACJ are partialy torn. One in 2005 end of season after throwing a front flip and having the lip of a jump colapse under me, and the right shoulder I did this past summer falling on a Jet ski at 55 mph.

Pavement and slushy snow sucks, but so does 78 degree water at speed!

I think I'll NOT be doing any "EC" style stuff much anymore as this past week I had an edge hold issue on my heel side and while when its hooking up wonderfully in the snow looks and feels awesome,..... the ONE failure/fall I had really f n hurt a lot when your body is halfway twisted around and wants to go farther as your chest slaps the snow at the same time as your ass does. :eek:

The thing about torn ligiments and such, is they take a long time to heal, and are prone to tearing again in the future. I found that self-induced PT sessions are needed despite the pain and you need to get the muscles rebuilding fast. I avoided the injections as they are helpfull, but also can be a hinderence.

EDIT: one side note I can make: the NO FALL SNOWBOARDING book has a lot of good exercises and stretches we all should do before going out and throwing ourselves to teh mercy of ourselves on the hill in the epic battle of Man VS Nature.

[Kex]

you are describing an acromial-clavicular seperation. they come in three grades depending on how far the clavicle sticks up. there is a tape protocol for that as well. If its supported while it heals it will heal normally. If its not you will have a funny lump on your shoulder for life:biggthump
yep, i read his and thought the exact same thing. I'm familiar with it because I now suffer from an AC separation in my left shoulder, though mine wasn't from snowboarding. Mine was from getting hit by a car while bike riding.

The doctor was amazed that I didn't break my collarbone. He went down the list of bones in my shoulder in the order that they should have broken and somehow didn't.

[RCrobar]

Broken collar bone, separated shoulder, broken ankle, broken nose, torn knee ligaments, fluid drained from both knees and both elbows and God only knows how many stitches in my face. OK, these injures are from hockey not snowboarding. I played Junior hockey in Swift Current and collegiate hockey for the University of Lethbridge and I continue to play beer hockey a couple times a week.

I can't see my self saying, better quit hockey because I might get hurt! I do, however, do my best to NOT put myself in a situation that might cause an injury. I also can't see myself saying I'm going to stop snowboarding, or ECing, because I might get hurt; but I do my best to be careful not to get hurt when boarding/ECing,

The only time I have had the feeling of almost ripping my arm right off my body was when riding a RACE board very fast, lost my balance, and touched my hand down for only a second! OUCH!!! Never had this happen when ECing, I feel, because I ride fast or slow when ECing depending on the conditions.

I EC a few turns here and there every time I get out boarding, not matter what the conditions are. I do, however, really SLOW down as the conditions get more and more sketchy. It is my feeling that a common error riders make when learning to EC is thinking that they need to ride a 1000 mph into a turn to have the momentum to get low and get back up again. Add to this a guy who is learning may reach for the snow may be going too fast. You have just put yourself in a situation that my cause a shoulder injury.

So, my 2 cents ... low and slow as the conditions get worse, really push and pull the legs hard to get momentum to go down and up when ECing rather than going too fast and reaching down.

Cheers
Rob

[Dave Pushee]

I've managed to mess up both shoulders snowboarding.

Right shoulder was about 6 years ago - caught an edge while looking back uphill - dragged arm up and back - temporary dislocation, frozen shoulder, several months PT. Shoulder works ok, but makes clicking and crunching noises from time to time.

Left shoulder 4 years ago - went over the bars, catapulted to landing on point of shoulder - complete AC Joint separation. It seems that the once loose end of the collar bone has become encapsulated - it no longer seems to shift around but is still obviously higher than its counterpart.

[jike9830]

since last post i have been in PT and that is helping-they determined I partially tore inner bicept muscle from shoulder. I got the Fox launch shoulder and chest protector. I have not snowboarded with it yet but ready to give it a shot. Armour? maybe what we need is airbags...

[todd]

Dislocated right shoulder 15 years ago skiing, left shoulder 10 years ago carving. Extensive pt after each, and no subsequent problems.

But Jim, once it starts popping out again, think you can look forward to it happening more and more. Get those muscles around it super strong. Think you will regret letting it slide.

[Derf]

I have dislocated both shoulders (not at the same time) several times between 1995 and 2005. It hurts like hell. I've seen an orthopedist who said the ligaments were torn in the right shoulder and slack in the left one. He said I should get operated, but the operation reduces mobility and will not hold 100%. I didn't get the operation, but did some physiotherapy and it helped a lot. I haven't had a dislocation since 2005.

Keep your hands off the snow (even if it looks and/or feel cool) and learn how to fall. And about putting the shoulder back in, like a previous poster said, do not do it like mel Gibson, it will create more damage.

[AlpineUndertaker]

Well that was the scariest thread I've read here... I'm just getting ready to put together my first apline setup and I'm certain I don't want to sign up for a separated shoulder!
I've never had any shoulder issues in all 32 years of existence but I do know that my left shoulder isn't strapped in as good as the right. I sure hope this can be avoided! I must admit I'm a bit shocked at how many of you have experienced these shoulder issues. I'm sure we would see a large number of people with shoulder issues if this was say a football or hockey forum, but I'm still a little alarmed.

[Petrol]

gots me yet another Dr. appointment for my shoulder this afternoon....

[tex1230]

Well that was the scariest thread I've read here... I'm just getting ready to put together my first apline setup and I'm certain I don't want to sign up for a separated shoulder!
I've never had any shoulder issues in all 32 years of existence but I do know that my left shoulder isn't strapped in as good as the right. I sure hope this can be avoided! I must admit I'm a bit shocked at how many of you have experienced these shoulder issues. I'm sure we would see a large number of people with shoulder issues if this was say a football or hockey forum, but I'm still a little alarmed.

Don't worry too much about it...if you're just starting alpine it will probably be some time till you're ready for laid out turns. Do yourself a favor and start with the Norm (see Jack's Articles) and develop solid fundamentals before throwing your body at the slope.

[two_ravens]

One year anniversary today of my shoulder dislocation. Still far from 100%, but got through the carving season without doing further significant damage (very happy about that!) And still noticing gains in strength and ROM pretty much weekly - small gains, but I'll take 'em. Considering it took 3 months of PT before I could lift just 1lb when isolating subscapularis, I'm pretty happy to be at about 60% now. Not yet sure about boating this season - thinking maybe one handed hand paddling. :-) Really want to get back in the squirt boat, but so hard to control all the forces on my paddle/shoulder when underwater.

So how are the other injured shoulders out there doing?

[Petrol]

two years out and my shoulder is great! It took a lot of hard work but I regained full ROM & strength...

of-course I'm just 5 wks post op from surgery to repair my tib & fib. probably be at least 8 more wks in a cast :mad:

[leeho730]

I dislocated left shoulder (which was previously dislocated) 4 years ago when doing EC. Learnt when to lay low and when not to. Full rehab, hasn't happen again so far.

Lessons I've learnt:
a) I should not bend above waist or reach for snow (pat the dog)
b) I should never "fall" down, simply let speed help my body incline towards the slope smoothly
c) I should keep the front foot steady so that my body is almost always perpendicular to the board (when you see PF or JR in video you'll see their front feet are always in same posture, i.e. almost always upright)
d) I should never EC when slope gets chopped up
e) I should wear elbow pads and wrist guards with palm protection (sounds strange but helped me).

[groovastic]

My both shoulders are in a terrible shape. And I won't mention my knees :D
Ligaments in my right shoulder are almost as weak as in my left shoulder where my bones are still dislocated for 0,7 cm (1/4"). I hurt it some 6-7 years ago in a chopped up snow and ever since, every time I have a minor impact, it starts hurting again!
I used to sleep with my arm under my head, but for almost a year I could not, since I could not raise my arm like that without pain!
I've been having those troubles untill I started paddling (sea kayaking), and after a month, my shoulder was as good as new!
So my only advice would be to try to make your shoulder muscles as strong as you possibly can, and you shouldn't have too many problems! Until the next time you fall on your arm! :eplus2:
Good luck mate!

[Petrol]

I used to sleep with my arm under my head....

I did that too. BIG mistake that likely adds to your shoulder problems...

To 'cure' me of that bad habit took about a month of wearing shorts to bed and falling asleep with my hands in the pockets.

[groovastic]

I did that too. BIG mistake that likely adds to your shoulder problems...

To 'cure' me of that bad habit took about a month of wearing shorts to bed and falling asleep with my hands in the pockets.

:lol:

[two_ravens]

Petrol, you're funny! Congrats on the shoulder recovery! And that ankle... I did see the original x-ray you posted. That looks...ummm.. a bit uncomfortable. Good luck with continued healing.

leeho730 - all good lessons. I just couldn't even begin to try any EC on toe side this year (it's my toe side shoulder that I dislocated) and very little heelside. Funny, I notice I didn't fall down toe side either (though I seem to fall fairly often heelside) - amazing what properly channeled fear will do for you. :-)

groovastic, I agree that regaining strength really helps keep you out of trouble. Used to paddle whitewater nearly year round, and before the injury I could do about 20 real pushups. Just started trying pushups again about a week ago (that's the direction my shoulder dislocated, so it's a direct challenge to the injured tissue, especially the cartilage) and could only do about 5 girl pushups before it started to feel unstable, but I've worked up to 3 sets of 10 this morning, so gaining quickly in that area! Hope to be paddling flatwater again soon. Will have to wait on the whitewater a bit....

[Helmut Karvlow]

Blew mine out 7 or 8 times one season, I learn things the hard way. Then that summer I crushed it longboarding down Ryan Gulch Rd. in Silverthorne. 6hours and about 50k later I was rebuilt and on my way to rehab. Its still not 100% maybe 90% on a good day. I have learned to live with it and adjusted my riding style in order to not do any more damage. To this day if I huck a snowball with my right arm I will cry like a little girl and this is 7 years later. Recovery from shoulder injuries takes time so be careful with it. I NEVER want to go through that again, having my colon shortened last winter was much more pleasent if you can imagine that. Be patient let it heal. My longboard is now a coat rack as I have found pavement way to unforgiving.

Think Snow

HEY OLD MAN LOOK UNDER YOUR NAME.........YOUR BANNED!!!!!!!!!