My first day out on HBs and I'm hooked. Would like advice though

[Keopele]

So after a year of reading and waiting to get all of the equipment, I finally was able to get out and try a HB set up. I've been on SBs for 3 seasons now, but after my first day on HBs, I much prefer them. I was expecting my first day on HBs to be a disaster, but it went much better than I anticipated. By the end of the day I was making nice arcing turns on Greens and feeling very confident. On greens, I'm able to lay down nice arcs with no skidding and feel some real gs. It felt like i was leaning the board over nicely. Everything felt great.

I was feeling comfortable on blues and modest blacks (east coast), but I know I need to improve a lot on them. I was able to make arcs, without skidding, but..

My problem is that on anything steeper than greens, my turns are MASSIVE. I end up doing these giant, hill swallowing, fast semi circles. The speed was a lil scary since I'm still learning... but fun. I know that's not the way to do things though, and I'm not happy with it. I want to be able to make real turns on blues (and maybe one day blacks).
I know about going back up the fall line to scrub speed. And, on greens, I do/can, but on blues, i end up going so fast and the turns are so huge, that even on the widest of trails, the end of my turn is almost in the trees.

Is this a common problem? Is there a usual suspect? What do you suggest for me to improve? Anything? thanks :)

[shawndoggy]

Describes my experience to a T. The way I used to say it was that it felt like the board held a lazer beam line, but the problem was I couldn't aim the lazer very well (i.e. there better not be any body in that arc!).

Basically what you need to be doing is putting more energy into the board early in the turn to get it to come around more quickly. Easy to say, takes a while to learn.

On toesides, get low early in the turn, and try to get the board up on edge by tipping (driving) your knees in before you have any real pressure on the edge. As you get better this becomes "carving the downhill edge."

Heelsides are tougher (or were for me). Keep the rear knee tucked in behind the front (not touching, but behind) instead of out sideways. Get low early and reach for your front boot cuff with your trailing hand (this should keep your body oriented the right way).

There are many many many more fine points (most of which I'm still working on too), but keeping those things in mind should get things coming along.

[Dan]

Hey Keopele, welcome to the dark side! It's always great to see another hardbooter coming aboard.

My short response: +1 to what Shawndoggy said.

At more length:

You mentioned that you already know about finishing the turn heading across the fall line or slightly uphill to scrub speed. But if you're finding that your turns are too wide for the trails that you're on, you need to flex ("decamber") the board more and make a smaller turn, as Shawndoggy suggested.

A couple of factors to think about:

1) It will be easier to flex the board more/make a tighter turn with a softer board. A softer board would be a shortcut to let you make smaller turns right away. The technique to pressure the board into a tighter turn will probably take a while to develop.

2) A board with a smaller sidecut radius (scr) is another shortcut to making a smaller turn. Freeride boards are usually around 8 meters or so, a slalom board might be around 9-11, GS boards are around 12 meters and up (I think my biggest board is around a 16 meter sidecut radius). With a smaller sidecut radius, you can make a smaller turn even if you can't fully decamber the board.

3) Find wider trails! Might be hard if you're out East, but there's nothing wrong with sticking to wider blues until you're able to snake down the skinny blues and blacks like the carving gods.

[Keopele]

Thanks for the replies guys. My board is actually pretty short.

Im riding a 158 Renntiger SL with F2 plates and Indy boots with blue BTS. I weigh around 155, so I was worried about the boots being stiff but they feel fine and sometimes I wish they were stiffer.

Thanks for all the tips. I have a lot to work on.. I can't wait :)

[jtslalom]

Both Dan and Shawndoggy are right on. What I used to practice to make tighter turns was to keep as low as I could posibly get. People would say I rode like I'm crunched up in a little ball. While doing this may not have looked all that great it let me angle my board on edge as much as possible, let my board conform easier to its natural sidecut and turn as quick as it possibly could.

I used to ride an RT 153. You should have no problems with turning nice tight round turns. Do yourself a favor and read some of the technicle articles found on the Boberonline Home page on the side bar to the left. One of them is labeled the physics of a snowboard carve. It is the "BEST" article I have personally ever seen the describes why and how a board turns the way it does. Read it and Good Luck.

[bobdea]

Thanks for the replies guys. My board is actually pretty short.

Im riding a 158 Renntiger SL with F2 plates and Indy boots with blue BTS. I weigh around 155, so I was worried about the boots being stiff but they feel fine and sometimes I wish they were stiffer.

Thanks for all the tips. I have a lot to work on.. I can't wait :)

pretty nice starting setup!

[yyzcanuck]

Is this a common problem? Is there a usual suspect? What do you suggest for me to improve? Anything? thanks :)

OK, some may accuse me of being un-reasonable here but I won't pull any punches... it's your technique. Don't take it as an insult or attack.

Hat's off to you that you've taken the time to investigate the equipment and make wise educated purchases (I'm riding a 158 Renntiger SL with F2 plates and Indy boots with blue BTS). These items are not the problem.

You need to angulate your body more and that will inclinate the board more and that, my friend, will make your turns tighter and that... will slow you down.

Try to hookup with an experienced rider in your area.

[shawndoggy]

1) It will be easier to flex the board more/make a tighter turn with a softer board. A softer board would be a shortcut to let you make smaller turns right away. The technique to pressure the board into a tighter turn will probably take a while to develop.

Wow, how did I forget to mention this! Great advice. My technique jumped bigtime once I got on a "soft" board. The reason, I think, is because I could start to get the board to decamber before the speed got so high that I'd chicken out.

[Keopele]

Thanks again everyone. I have to give credit to the forum for helpful advice last year on equipment decisions. I got lucky with the board. It's an old Renntiger (yellow and black) that someone local was selling. I also got lucky with the boots with someone local selling. The boots were the hardest to find and took the longest waiting for.
Don't worry YYZ. I didn't take your comment the wrong way. I totally realize it's my technique that needs to improve. I won't be upgrading my equipment until my riding justifies it. I was actually saying to my softboot friends "the guys on the forum talk about amazing boards like Coilers and Viruses and metal boards and how great they are. I can't imagine how good they can be becuase the old board (renntiger) I'm on seems amazing already." Seriously, the difference from my old soft set up to this new hardboot set up feels SO much better and is way more fun. I can't imagine how a board could feel any better.
I'm hoping to be able to find someone local to ride with one day. I was actually thinking about going to the meet up that happened a few weeks ago, but felt my first day on HBs might not be the best idea. If I had known how well I'd take to it though, I would have joined you guys.
Thanks again for the replies, ideas, and suggestions.

Edit: Out of curiosity, how does the SL Renntiger rate in therms of "softness"? I would have thought it to be fairly soft because its a slalom board. Perhaps I'm wrong?

[mr_roboteye]

Out of curiosity, how does the SL Renntiger rate in therms of "softness"? I would have thought it to be fairly soft because its a slalom board. Perhaps I'm wrong?

I've never ridden a volkl board, but when I watch this video, soft, soft, soft. There is no way in hell I could pull the front two thirds of any of my boards off the snow. Flex is a very subjective thing and you'll have to find out what you like by riding as many boards as you can get your hands on. Right now you're perched at the top of the very slippery slope of gear vaccuumness. Good luck.

Just click the link in the first post. This thread is in the videos section.

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22066


later,

Dave R.

[scubaree]

I just had my first day in hard boots on Wednesday the 11th had a blast and just loved I'm hooked :biggthump

Ross

[xogiox]

You think it's tough on a 158, try a 182 axxis in Michigan where the carving slopes are few and far between =). To bad I weight 275 or else I would get a shorter board! I will say this, I am probably one of the faster mothers out there on the flats =). I feel ya on the first time being hooked, I was the same way! I can't wait to get back out there again, we have had some crappy weather the last week that has been holding me back. Good luck with the tighter turns, just know that I am out there experiencing the exact same thing.

[andreac]

hi keopele, where are riding out here? as Dave (YYZ) said it's great to hook up with local riders, especially those who are better than you to pick up tips and just watch (i think it was Paul K who told me he taught himself to ride by looking at pictures of really good riders and trying to make his body do the same things he saw). So where are you riding? also check out the ride board here for Ontario and see who is going where when and join up! If you can't keep up with everyone, don't worry you will get a few turns in with someone each run! Nice to have you on board (pun intended!)

[Dave ESPI]

You think it's tough on a 158, try a 182 axxis in Michigan where the carving slopes are few and far between =). To bad I weight 275 or else I would get a shorter board! I will say this, I am probably one of the faster mothers out there on the flats =). I feel ya on the first time being hooked, I was the same way! I can't wait to get back out there again, we have had some crappy weather the last week that has been holding me back. Good luck with the tighter turns, just know that I am out there experiencing the exact same thing.

Just to eccho here a bit what everyone else is saying, It all comes down to ride style, weight, angulation and body posture as well as flex and sidecut of the board. Having been on a lot of different boards, from 121 to a 190 I can say that how "damp" board is and how much work and the size of hill you want to do to ride it totaly in control is verymuch based on skill and strength. There are just some boards that are too soft, and some that are mountain missles under us with their own sense of guidance system and you just cant over-ride the programing (pun intended).

:biggthump

[carvedog]

Fish on. Glad you had a good first day.

To prevent the board from turning into a runaway freight train, you will need work on early turning, round turning ( both mentioned I know) and ......
lots of flexion and extension.

Angulation is part of it. Spinal flexion is part of it and one of the biggest that gets overlooked in beginning progressions.

C to C is type of turn and shape of turn, it should also be ( to a point ) what your body and back is doing to keep your COM ( center of mass ) over the edge.

Part of this is making sure you are flexing your boots to get up and down movement. With BTS this should be easier. If you are bending your knees enough to flex the boots, you are on the right track.

good luck.