How to repair Core shots on Metal boards.

[Fleaman]

So I put a core shot on my new Coiler AMT 177 and was wondering how to fix it. I Emailed Bruce and he said he does'nt repair boards, he just builds another one when he breaks it. Haha, but seriously, he recommended taking the base down 2/3 the thickness and epoxying a patch in the area. This is required because if the anodized titanal under the base is scuffed, it will be hard for p-tex to stick.


So I was a bit leary taking a Dremel router to my board but I did and the repair turned out satisfactory. It isnt perfect but very useable.

If anyone has ideas or other techniques, please post your ideas.

Here is a picture of the core shot.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7672.jpg

Another angle
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7673.jpg

What I did is cut out a patch first then laid it on the base and traced it out to remove the material with the dremel router.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7674.jpg

I then sampled some of the cookies my wife made earlier. Yum Yum
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7675.jpg

All I had at the time was a round burr bit. I think a cylinder one with a flat bottom would be preferable but this is all I had.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7681.jpg

Starting to rout out the base 2/3 the thickness of the p-tex
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7682.jpg

The hardest part is to get the area cut out the same shape as the patch. The epoxy will fill in any gaps but they are unsightly but I dont care that much. I did the best I could without a template. You can get some at tognar.com
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7684.jpg

The patch fits fairly well.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7685.jpg

Then you have to sand the areas to be glued, keep it away from the metal to keep the anodization . then flame treat the p-tex patch and the base and clean with some acetone. You might want to let the acetone evaporate off the peices for a while before you flame the areas. :angryfire
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7687.jpghttp://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7686.jpg

Then use some High quality epoxy, I used Hysol from Tognar.com
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7688.jpg

Prepare your clamping pad and clamps. I have found that wood with base protection tape does not stick to epoxy.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7689.jpg

I then protected the area around the repair from accidental epoxy drippage.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7690.jpg

By this next step you should have drunk at least this many beers, if not, chug a few and be happy.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7691.jpg

the area all clamped up,
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7692.jpg

Everything peeled off a few days later.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7693.jpg

side shot of the repair
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7694.jpg

top shot
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7695.jpg

some tools I used to take down the patch level with the base. I used the draw plane the most, it is sharp and will damage your surrounding base ifyou are not carefull. I found pulling it on an angle like a file worked the best. As you can see in the next few shots I did drag it on the surrounding area and made a few light gouges.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7696.jpg

The completed repair, sanded a bit and then rubbed with a scotch brite pad.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7697.jpg


It isnt perfect but it is an effective repair. A template would make the patch fit nicer. Notice the tool gouges from leveling the patch.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7698.jpg

Thats all, Now a wax and then go riding.

[Gecko]

nicely done

[WEBSIGHT360]

I loved the cookies and beer part. :lol:

Nice job on the repair too!

[CarvingScooby]

Hey Fleaman,

Need advice outside your repair expertise. How you can post so many pixs in one post and how you add those comments in between pixs?

Thanks in advance
Roy

[gdboytyler]

Hey Fleaman,

Need advice outside your repair expertise. How you can post so many pixs in one post and how you add those comments in between pixs?

Thanks in advance
Roy

Click the "quote" button on the original post and you'll see how it was done.

[Fleaman]

I uploaded the pictures to Photobucket and linked to them in my post with img tags.

like this

but without the * in IMG [IM*G]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/board%20repair/DSCN7698.jpg[/IMG]

there is a link on the photo page you can click and paste in your posts. The captions are written before or after the link

[Steve Prokopiw]

tasted better than they look. Good looking repair job though.

[Bruce Varsava]

You now officially are more qualified than me at doing that type of repair:biggthump
Nice work! I have yet to see anyone do that yet and as long as you did the flame treat effectively( which is pretty easy), it should work out nicely.
Stay off the rails next time:freak3:
BV

[Jack Michaud]

Looks like you had the tools, talent, and cajones. I wouldn't trust myself with that job! Thanks for the interesting pics.

[corey_dyck]

Nice work Fleaman! :biggthump

Can you or Bruce tell us more about the "flame treat" part of the process? Do you just slightly melt the Ptex before bringing the parts together?

[Fleaman]

Nice work Fleaman! :biggthump

Can you or Bruce tell us more about the "flame treat" part of the process? Do you just slightly melt the Ptex before bringing the parts together?


All you need to do is pass a flame quickly over the parts a few times so it opens up the pores of the p-tex. If you hold it too long, it will melt it a bit and it wont stick.

Try it with an old board or patch of p-tex first to get the idea.

[Fleaman]

Looks like you had the tools, talent, and cajones. I wouldn't trust myself with that job! Thanks for the interesting pics.

Before I took the dremel to the board, I measured 3 or 4 times then took a deep breath and chugged the rest of my beer.



You now officially are more qualified than me at doing that type of repair:biggthump
Nice work! I have yet to see anyone do that yet and as long as you did the flame treat effectively( which is pretty easy), it should work out nicely.
Stay off the rails next time:freak3:
BV

Thanks for the idea. It was pretty easy to do it, just time waiting for the glue to dry.

[Fleaman]

tasted better than they look. Good looking repair job though.


They were the frozen dough white chocolate macadamian nut cookies you buy from school fundraisers, they are my favorite.

[Donek]

I rarely do repairs like this, but have done some. You've done what I do for the most part. I would have set up a router with a template (cut on the cnc) and cut all the way through the p-tex. This involves some tricky adjustments, but with a dial indicator you can usually make incremental depth adjustments of about .005in until you are through the base. I then use our cnc to cut multiple patches each .005in bigger than the next. When I find the one that fits the best, I use it. The patches I've done have been much bigger. As long as 40in. I put the board back in a press rather than clamp. It then gets a base grind.

If the metal is directly under the base, it does present a problem. If you lightly sand the aluminum minutes before applying your e-poxy, you should get a good bond. aluminum will oxidize. This is what prevents adhesion to it. By sanding immediately before applying your epoxy, you should get an extremely good bond.

[Fleaman]

I wish I had a way to be more precise, but I am a backyard tuner.

Maybe with a large peice of metal for a template you make the cutout really large so the dremel fits inside to remove material. Then the problem lies in cutting the patch out the right size.

I would have used my CNC machine but I sold it for some beer and cookies last week :D

[Bruce Varsava]

I would have used my CNC machine but I sold it for some beer and cookies last week :D
Me too:biggthump

[Donek]

Actually I heard a couple years ago that Sears had plans to produce a bench top cnc router. I don't know what happened to it. If you look online, there are multiple plans for bench top units that carry a small router or dremel. There are even plans for converting mini mills for cnc control. Most of them are adapted from discarded printer and floppy drive stepper motors.

The only metal I cut with my cnc is the titanal laminates that go in our metal boards. Everything else is wood or plastic.

You could cut a template large enough to fit the base of a dremel and your shape. It is actually possible to do the entire job this way, including cutting your patch. You would simply cut your template to run your dremel inside of (this could be done with a jig saw). Cut your base material by running the dremel around the outside of the template. To cut the base material off the board, you would need an offset shim inside the template equivalent to the radius of your dremel bit. If your template is square, just place strips of wood along the inside edges of the template that are the thickness of the cutters radius and begin cutting.

[Bruce Varsava]

Actually I heard a couple years ago that Sears had plans to produce a bench top cnc router. I don't know what happened to it. If you look online, there are multiple plans for bench top units that carry a small router or dremel. There are even plans for converting mini mills for cnc control. Most of them are adapted from discarded printer and floppy drive stepper motors.

The only metal I cut with my cnc is the titanal laminates that go in our metal boards. Everything else is wood or plastic.

You could cut a template large enough to fit the base of a dremel and your shape. It is actually possible to do the entire job this way, including cutting your patch. You would simply cut your template to run your dremel inside of (this could be done with a jig saw). Cut your base material by running the dremel around the outside of the template. To cut the base material off the board, you would need an offset shim inside the template equivalent to the radius of your dremel bit. If your template is square, just place strips of wood along the inside edges of the template that are the thickness of the cutters radius and begin cutting.

HUH?
Hey man you're talking to Canadians eh, if theres any more than beer and a chainsaw involved , we're not interested:lol:

[Donek]

HUH?
Hey man you're talking to Canadians eh, if theres any more than beer and a chainsaw involved , we're not interested:lol:

I'm assuming the use of the dremel base pictured in Fleamans original post. If you want a square patch 2in X 2in and the base of that dremel tool is 2in in diameter, you make a square hole in a piece of plywood that is 4in X 4in. When you run the 2in diameter demel base around the perimeter of that square hole, the bit will cut a square that is 2in X 2in. The only thing that remains is to adjust for the thickness of the cut when going from the patch to the hole in the base. Above I stated the shims should be the thickness of the bits radius. That was wrong, it should the thickness of the bits diameter. Your patch will have square corners, where your cutout will have rounded ones. It will be necessary to square the corners on your cutout or round those on the patch. If done correctly, you should get a very good fitting patch and cutout.

[Donek]

HUH?
Hey man you're talking to Canadians eh, if theres any more than beer and a chainsaw involved , we're not interested:lol:

Oh, and hey man! I'm Canadian too! Haven't you ever heard me say "Eh!"

[bobdea]

hey Sean, http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921754000P

that what you were talking about?

[leeho730]

A small tip:

Using small sandblaster that some dentists use, such as MicroEtcher (below), helps adhesion when used with 90- or 100-micron aluminium oxide powder. Can improve bonding between metal and resin immensely (twice or more), and takes only a few seconds. Also removes any loose debris and is not aggressive like typical industrial sandblaster so it won't pucture thin metal layer or topsheet. Ideal for small applications such as the case above or fixing small delam...

http://www.danvillematerials.com/danville/img/detail/d_22005-01.jpg

Problem? You need to buy an air-compressor, not to mention acquiring microetcher handpiece which can cost more than $1000. Therefore, you will need a dentist who has it, is either a skier or a carver and is a good friend of yours... I was lucky! ;)

[Bruce Varsava]

I'm assuming the use of the dremel base pictured in Fleamans original post. If you want a square patch 2in X 2in and the base of that dremel tool is 2in in diameter, you make a square hole in a piece of plywood that is 4in X 4in. When you run the 2in diameter demel base around the perimeter of that square hole, the bit will cut a square that is 2in X 2in. The only thing that remains is to adjust for the thickness of the cut when going from the patch to the hole in the base. Above I stated the shims should be the thickness of the bits radius. That was wrong, it should the thickness of the bits diameter. Your patch will have square corners, where your cutout will have rounded ones. It will be necessary to square the corners on your cutout or round those on the patch. If done correctly, you should get a very good fitting patch and cutout.

I wish I got enough riding in to damage a board.

[Jon Dahl]

HUH?
Hey man you're talking to Canadians eh, if theres any more than beer and a chainsaw involved , we're not interested:lol:

Oh, I had a flashback to when I was a kid growin' up in Wisconsin...neighbor wanted a picture window in his house, fired up the chainsaw, cut studs, nails, siding, whatever was in the way. Fairly certain there was beer involved...

[oldvolvosrule]

VEry nice patch job, I tried doing a few of those when I worked in a ski shop in the 80s. My attempts didn't come out as well as yours did. Now go mount up those new BOL heel receivers and go ride!!!!

[Fleaman]

VEry nice patch job, I tried doing a few of those when I worked in a ski shop in the 80s. My attempts didn't come out as well as yours did. Now go mount up those new BOL heel receivers and go ride!!!!


they are mounted and ready to go, but I am on Standby at work this weekend so I had to dream about riding.

they are the Bomber recievers for Catek bindings.

[Donek]

hey Sean, http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921754000P

that what you were talking about?

Looks like it might be. A cnc router inside a surface planers chassy. It's the perfect width for snowboards. I wonder what it's working length is. Fascinating approach that I've never seen before.

[Gecko]

they are the Bomber recievers for Catek bindings.

Please give a review of them when you can get some time on them I am lilkely gonna buy them this year and want to know what to expect

[Bruce Varsava]

Looks like it might be. A cnc router inside a surface planers chassy. It's the perfect width for snowboards. I wonder what it's working length is. Fascinating approach that I've never seen before.

My mother used to work for Sears so I can get it at a discount too:)
I have often eyed up the planers and thought about trying to set it up somehow but looks like these dudes have done it. Must be made made by someone else and Craftsman name slapped on it so could probably find similar with another nameplate . I like the space savings!!
Just checked and Carvewright is the co who builds it. Seems a ton of people have them blow up so you get what you pay for.

[Keyser Soze]

They were the frozen dough white chocolate macadamian nut cookies you buy from school fundraisers, they are my favorite.

I don't know what Steve's talking about, those cookies look awesome.


HUH?
Hey man you're talking to Canadians eh, if theres any more than beer and a chainsaw involved , we're not interested:lol:

Don't forget bacon and ODR.

[Fleaman]

[If you lightly sand the aluminum minutes before applying your e-poxy, you should get a good bond. aluminum will oxidize. This is what prevents adhesion to it. By sanding immediately before applying your epoxy, you should get an extremely good bond./QUOTE]
I am a powerlineman and we use wire brushes to clean up aluminum wire. One old guy told a co-worker of mine that if you brush the wire, you have five minutes to make the connection. I told him he was full of **** but maybe he was right.


[QUOTE]Please give a review of them when you can get some time on them I am lilkely gonna buy them this year and want to know what to expect

I used them this weekend and had better success in clipping them in. With the catek recievers, the heels clicked in, but I was not confident. as they pulled out when tested. The new steel recievers worked better but no click (I did use silicone grease) But when I visually checked them they were always in. The best thing about them is you can see the pins protruding from the reciever and it gives you the confidence.


ODR

Refresh my memory?


Anyways, the patch held fine. I have patched before but the reapair has been suspect (hence the ordering of an new Coiler(You have to buy what your wife lets you, and when she lets you) ) I didn't flame treat the patch on my old AM and it seems to be holding but the corner is a bit spongy. The patch I did in the pictures above has held fine and I have no regrets. This repair will last.

BTW, It took a few days, but I found that the Metal board is Way better at carving in crud and harder conditions.
At the start i was thinking, it felt the same as My old board.
Then after a few turn in groomed crud, I chanded my mind.

[Keyser Soze]

Refresh my memory?

OUTDOOR RINK!

Back to Canuck 101 for you, I'm disappointed.

[Fleaman]

I grew up on Odr's in northern ontario, but now that I live out west, you can only have a rink like 2 or 3 weeks a year untill it gets too warm.

[Keyser Soze]

I grew up on Odr's in northern ontario, but now that I live out west, you can only have a rink like 2 or 3 weeks a year untill it gets too warm.

Makes sense, I'm an Ontario boy, so I've no idea what it would be like not to have any ODRs come winter. Still, blasphemy for forgetting the one acronym all Canucks must know! BlueB may have recently become a Canadian citizen, but he's no Canadian until he's been out on the ODRs a few times.

:D

[carvedog]

Thread bump for awesomeness.

I am doing a base repair in the next few days and I searched for this and hope I do this good of job.

Thanks Flea.

[Fleaman]

Glad to be of service:)

[steamboatrailer]

We put roof over our olympic rink,I love big ice.But we have a ODR just outside of town,get to play with the red necks.Little to no rules,ha,very fun.:eplus2:

[BlueB]

BlueB may have recently become a Canadian citizen, but he's no Canadian until he's been out on the ODRs a few times. :D
Hey, I'm in BC's Lower Mainland, our water doesn't even freeze here ;)
However, I've been on an ODR as a kid, in my country of birth.