carpet practice and critique

[rschneid]

I am looking for drills that I can do at home on carpet. I have been practicing going edge to edge and trying to stay on an edge. Its coming but it would be nice to know
A. That I am not developing bad habits
B. That this is not a complete waste of time

I did search the forum for carpet practice and drills and did not come up with anything. Did I miss something? Or maybe nobody else is crazy enough to do this? My kids say I look something like a cross between an aardvark and a duck during my practice sessions.

I live in Maryland. Theres no snow. I can't go anywhere else. I am going to Aspen 12/24 thru 12/31 and would like to be ready

If you can rotate your head 90 degrees (and keep it there) than you can check out richsalpinecarpetcarving (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC2TbnzlP5M) on youtube. Never having done a video (ok I am newbie I admit it) I did not consider the post shoot rotation problem. :smashfrea I am going to do this again the right way.

[Phil]

1. You are as much of an addict as any of us. Congratulations. :biggthump
2. My wife is in R & D now and she shot her first research video sideways as well. She had a good laugh when she saw me watching that video.
3. For anyone else reading my post before watching the video, there is no need to watch the whole thing, watch the first minute or two, the rest is redundant. No offense intended, Rich.

I would start by slowing down.
Do you remember when we worked on "finding neutral"? Try to find it again. Can you find "four on the floor"?
Try feeling things out a bit more. Untuck that back knee from the front and start driving both and then balance on the edge. This is MUCH harder on the heelside than on toeside. Try to feel even pressure on both feet as you balance on the edge. See how long you can hold that pose on each side and see how high of an edge angle you can balance on.
If you feel like one of your feet is twisting or that you are putting more weight on one foot than the other, then try going back to neutral and starting over.

Once you feel REALLY comfortable, balanced and neutral, even when balancing on edge, then you can add in fore and aft movements. Note that if you are in a solid, neutral stance, you should also be able to go fore and aft - even on edge - with strong movements. It should not cause you to have to contort your body too much, although you will see much more contortion on the heelside than the toeside.

So far, this has been very basic. The idea up until now is to get you in a powerful position on your board whether flat or on edge. The position you were in on the video is not necessarily a strong one IMO. Wiggling your front knee back and forth with your back knee tucked in behind it will not accomplish this.

This is just the start. Let me know how it goes.

[rschneid]

Phil, thanks for taking the time to look at it (any of it). Do you think that this will help? Will these skills/motions translate to the slopes?

Rich S.

[Phil]

Yes, I think it can help very much as long as you are not reinforcing ineffective habits.

BTW, make sure that you are actually able to find the neutral stance or "four on the floor" on your current setup without any kind of compensating stance. You should be able to just stand there comfortably without twisting or compensating. If you cannot, then something might need to be adjusted before trying the stuff above.

[carvedog]

My kids got out the balance board about a month ago and they are stoked for the season. Way to fuel the addiction.

Didn't see any bad habits so to speak. I did only see quick edge to edge down the fall line.

When I do this type of warm up, I try to move around on the board as much as possible at times anyway. Meaning feeling the front hip push and rotate around over the toes on the front foot. Try some twistin moves with the board too. Meaning instead of both feet working together, start with front foot ( knee ) across the board to start the turn, both feet together and back foot only across the board to start the turn.

All will give different feelings and different balance points etc.

Keep up the stoke. Hoep the snow is awesome for you when you get there.

[BadBrad]

Yes, I think it can help very much as long as you are not reinforcing ineffective habits.

BTW, make sure that you are actually able to find the neutral stance or "four on the floor" on your current setup without any kind of compensating stance. You should be able to just stand there comfortably without twisting or compensating. If you cannot, then something might need to be adjusted before trying the stuff above.

Can you give some details on this "four on the floor" setup? I assume that means that you feel equal pressure at all four corners of the feet while standing flat on the floor, right?

I've been trying to figure out my most comfortable stance width and canting settings, and I find that I'm pretty comfortable across a wide range so it's hard to tell what really works best while standing on carpet. Additionally, I have a habit of tucking my rear knee in on heelside turns which feels best with a lot of rear cant & heel lift, but I'm trying to get away from that habit and I'm thinking that less rear cant might help. So how do I find my most neutral and balanced settings?

[inkaholic]

Rich,
Besides what the others have said remember to look where you are going, the board is not going to change colors. If you are going to practice it do it all the way, hands out for balance, shoulders level, look where you will be going soon, all that kind of stuff, not just the movement of your legs.

More advanced:
build a balance board using an old dead board or 2"x8"x36" and attach a 2"x3"x36" board to the bottom of it, making a "T". Mine is an old Hot Blast with a great tune on it. Balance on that in stance, practice the same movements and do squats. This will make your balance much better once you get on hill. You can even add dumbells to the squats for more workout. If you are doing squats you probably don't want to do it with boots on. I don't use boots on mine to help strengthen my ankles.

Hope this helps and the snow flies soon for you,
Ink

[dredman]

There are some videos on youtube of people using the Wii Fit to practice.
Some appear to have very good form.

[rschneid]

Thanks to everyone who bothered to look at my seriously sideways video! I am absorbing the info. I am thinking about building a balance board as per Inkaholic.

Note: actually my board does change colors. I have a Prior WCR Metal ( this is as admitted by all, the best carving board out there ) which I have polished up to be a better mirror than a mirror, so with each tiny shift an ever changing panorama is displayed.

Note2: Its possible that I was on my Nidecker during the video (not shiny)

Rich S.

[Dan]

If you can rotate your head 90 degrees (and keep it there) than you can check out richsalpinecarpetcarving (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC2TbnzlP5M) on youtube. Never having done a video (ok I am newbie I admit it) I did not consider the post shoot rotation problem. :smashfrea I am going to do this again the right way.

I will leave the form critique to those qualified to do so :), and just comment on the video rotating issue. I've used this freeware to do that before: http://www.virtualdub.org/index.html , you might want to check it out.

[davekempmeister]

Another Marylander here - If Mark Brown posts up then that should cover the whole state.

[EnisiWaya]

Its coming but it would be nice to know
A. That I am not developing bad habits
B. That this is not a complete waste of time

I did search the forum for carpet practice and drills and did not come up with anything. Did I miss something? Or maybe nobody else is crazy enough to do this? My kids say I look something like a cross between an aardvark and a duck during my practice sessions.

I live in Maryland. Theres no snow. I can't go anywhere else. I am going to Aspen 12/24 thru 12/31 and would like to be ready

Whoa buddy, lets think a minute here,

What you are practicing here is that same as the self declared skier swishing his/her tails back and forth while going strait down the trail in a uncontrollable speed. rolling the board back and forth just changes the edges while going straight. To set the edge you need to be dynamic not static balanced above the board but balanced in the center of the g forces of the turn. otherwise you go straight down the hill with no speed control.

speed control for skis or snowboard is accomplished by finishing a turn back up the hill till you slow down. All the tail wagging and swishing in the world will not control your speed no mater how cool the dumb Blondes think it is, (I am married to a blonde and after 32 years she is not dumb but has the best dumb blonde jokes ever), will not , WILL NOT SLOW YOU DOWN before you run into a building or the Cadilac SUV in the parking lot.

You need to train yourself to be dynamic not static as to your body position and balance and resistance to G forces. you would be better to go out to the alley and put foot prints on the wall two feet up and run till you can put your feet on the prints and then return to ground. When you can get both feet on walls 7 to 10 feet apart, prints up above your normal standing shoulder height so your feet are above the center of our body mass then you are ready for push pull turns. This means you are upside down if you were not moving dynamicaly since your mass is below your contact oint (our feet), you would fall to the ground. The centripital force of running up the wall is a greater force which allows you to run up the wall and return to ground easily. You create a centripital force by movement that is greater than the static gravity so you do not fall. It takes guts and a whole lot of self confidence . But once you do it it is addictive.

this is a real dry land excercize that replicates the motions , the balance , the discipline, the feelings and the muscle training for fully laid turns. BLUE B HELP ME OUT ON THIS ONE. I don't want to get pedantic here on the board so call me and i will explain in detail. After 20 plus years of dry land training of snowboard instructors i think I might be able to help you. And It will only cost you a phone call or two . It is so easy but so complicated at the same time
i would ;need to test you verbally and find out what you do know how to do from snow and other sports to find a common denominator to build your program on based on what you already can do. As with all my instructors, each program is unique and individual.

I would be honored to help you, as I have a failing back and degenerative spinal disease, to use my last years in helping and coaching others.

With my 42 years of professional snow sports teaching and my 25 years as a top world leader robotics engineering seminar chair I have a unique technical understanding of what we do.

So call me GWS

Grand father wolf singing

"dances with trees"

Chase Kenyon

603 938 5282



and let us design a personal program for you. i know Blue B will help and many others . so if we can do it for you then we can build something that we can make a permanent part of this site. Will you be the Guinea pig so to speak? You have everything to gain and nothing to loose and would be creating a legacy for our sport.

[Mark Brown]

Another Marylander here - If Mark Brown posts up then that should cover the whole state.

Oh, hotbed of carvers all right - it's all the snow we get 'round here...

Might have to challenge Rich on the metal Prior being the best comment, but it'll be 5-6 weeks before my new metal Coiler chews up some of our ice^H^H^Hsnow -- 1st rule of mid-Atlantic ski resorts: NEVER use the "i" word, it's always "firm conditions", "frozen granular" or "packet powder"!

[rschneid]

What... challenge... surely everyone already knows that the WCR Metal is the best board.
;)

[BadBrad]

Another Marylander here - If Mark Brown posts up then that should cover the whole state.

Hey, don't forget me, Brad B. in Columbia, MD.

And I've had the pleasure to ride with Rich, and he is a good carver, especially since he's only been doing it a couple of years. I've been riding hard boots for almost 2 decades and I still suck. But then, I only get to ride a few days a year (last year was a very good year with about 8 or 9 days, including SES), so I will forever be a struggling intermediate.

Brad

[rschneid]

Hey, Brad thanks for the "props" (I got this guided response from my 14yr old daugher !) It either thanks you for propping me up as I am about to keel over from old age or possibly it means you are propping up my sagging ego.

Here are the Marylanders that I know about:
BadBrad - Columbia
MarkBrown - Metro DC
DaveKempmiester - Westmister (Baltimore?)
Rich - Germantown

Who am I leaving out?

[KingCrimson]

Rschneid, are you taking Enisiwaya up on his offer? That's extremely generous of him.

[carvedog]

Hey, don't forget me, Brad B. in Columbia, MD.

so I will forever be a struggling intermediate.

Brad

Only if you except that you will always be a struggling intermediate. I have seen folks go from terminal intermediacy to "getting it" in a day. Once you get it, "it" does not seem to go away. At least for me.

Need to retune once in a while. Advanced carving, for me, is all about fluidity in all the joints. Once you start not moving one of them, hard to carve.

Spinal flexion/extension or slinky back if you prefer can do wonders too.

TSFTPoTI.
The Society for the Prevention of Terminal Intermediacy.

I know, I know it's not a great name but you can do it.

And to get back to the OP question. Nothing you are doing in the vid will hurt your riding. Of course it is not replicating snowboarding, but it sure is a better way to watch football than sitting in a chair. And I always get pumped up when I get my stuff out. :biggthump

Since I don't wear shoes much in the summer, this type of thing gets my feet used to being worked a bit too. That is probably the biggest bennie for me.

[Phil]

Can you give some details on this "four on the floor" setup? I assume that means that you feel equal pressure at all four corners of the feet while standing flat on the floor, right?... So how do I find my most neutral and balanced settings?


Equal pressure on balls and heels when standing on your board in the flat. It is a very strong, stable position to be in. It will allow you to make just about any movement you need to on a snowboard because you are starting from a position that allows the greatest range of motion.

Think about standing without a snowboard on - four on the floor is natural - I like to call it neutral.

The trick is to be able to adjust your bindings and stance so that you can achieve a neutral stance. Every person on BOL would like to give you different stance advice, but the bottom line is that everyone's body is different and therefore there is no "magic bullet" stance. The way that I train people to ride best utilizes a neutral stance. There are some techniques/styles that need some kind of compensation in the stance to make up for other things involved in that kind of riding.

Do your best to find a neutral stance and then crouch, twist, get low, get tall - see which stance allows you to start at neutral and still have the greatest range of motion.

If you are tucking your back knee into your front, you are limiting your range of motion, so I would recommend trying to get that out of your stance.

(don't anyone :flamethro me for saying that - it is simple biomechanics - so ride how you want, this info is an answer to Brad's ?)

Hope this helps. Hope to see you at Bear Creek sometime. I'll also be sneaking down to Roundtop on a few Thursdays this season.

-Phil-

[BadBrad]

Spinal flexion/extension or slinky back if you prefer can do wonders too.



I have scoliosis and a very inflexible lower back. I also have a very short torso and it doesn't take much side bend for my rib cage to hit my pelvis. I always suspected that was part of my problem. I do a lot of stretching and yoga, which helps, but my back issues still limit the amount of angulation I can get.

Phil, let me know when you'll be at Roundtop. I don't even go to the local hills on weekends, because I don't like the crowds, but on the rare occasion that I can take a day off mid-week I'll go to Whitetail or Roundtop.

Thanks, everyone, for the great responses.

Brad

[Mark Brown]

Here are the Marylanders that I know about:
BadBrad - Columbia
MarkBrown - Metro DC
DaveKempmiester - Westmister (Baltimore?)
Rich - Germantown

In the "who cares" department, I'm also in Germantown and about a stones throw from Rich. Just figured no one would know where the heck Germantown, MD was :confused:

Oh, and by the way Rich - as my teenage daughter would say: You suck! Aspen for the holidays??? Colour me jealous!

THINK COLD!!! -- THEY CAN MAKE THE SNOW...

[rschneid]

Brad, please check out my video, about 3 seconds worth. I am wearing a belt http://www.diskdoctoronline.com/product_desc.php?id=28 which has significantly altered my life. I am an Ex Inf Abn Army Ranger. Somewhere along the line, one to many jumps crushed my lower discs. So much that I have been on acetominophen and ibuprofen for years. During Aspen SES 08 the pain got so bad I upped the dosage from the usual 2 + 2 twice a day to 3+3 twice a day. I know thats to much for more than about 3 days and some people go balistic on me for even saying this, so please no flames, I know its bad - but so is pain and so is the inability to ride because of pain - so it was a tradeoff - daily in my case. Anyway after SES I was getting ready to do the spine fusion thing when I ran across some propaganda on the above product. I tried it and within a week I was totally off all pain med. That would be the first time in 8 years!!! Thats a big deal for me. I have not been back on since. I wear this belt every day for about 3+ hours during the drive to work and for about the first 3 hours at work. Than I take it off. I also always wear it when I work out. Its on during all my practice sessions and I will be wearing it when I ride - all the time. Yes I am dependent on it. But I am off drugs totally and I have not had to have surgery.

Why is it different? Because it literally pushes the ribs up, and the pelvis down, pushing the vertebral discs apart. Voilla no more pain. Check out the various web sites on it and if you care I can video a 30 sec clip of me putting it on and pumping it up (yes you have to pump it up).



Rich S.

[carvedog]

I have scoliosis and a very inflexible lower back. I also have a very short torso and it doesn't take much side bend for my rib cage to hit my pelvis. I always suspected that was part of my problem. I do a lot of stretching and yoga, which helps, but my back issues still limit the amount of angulation I can get.

Wow. Sorry to hear that. I obviously didn't know any of your medical issues when I posted that. It just seems when people are stuck a lot of times that is one of the things that can hold them up. You can make up for it in the shoulders to a point.

[BadBrad]

Rich,
The link you sent me for the Disk Dr. waist belt has contact info for Middle East and Africa. Where did you get yours?

Brad

[rschneid]

try discdiseasesolutions.com
also try searching for 'dds 300' which is the actual product
I think I actually got mine from an outfit in Washington State. I will see if I can find a receipt somewhere.

Rich S.

[Dave ESPI]

Your pants are too tight*.

You are a snowboarder, not a fruity skier. :freak3:

Watch a lot of videos and think about needing to bow the board between transitions from edges and your body in a counter ballance position with the feet swinging under you. Its hard to replicate on carpet.

Just work on exercises and stretching your muscles.

* no offence to those who race and wear Spyder suits....
:lol:

[rschneid]

Dave, you are kidding right? The only reason my pants are tight, is because my jeans only just barely will snap on over my lower back brace belt, which I am wearing. That belt is the only thing that keeps me going... It was either snap up my jeans or practice in undies which I think might have been a bit much for the video.... you knew that right......?

[Steve Prokopiw]

if I'll will ever be able to listen to Foo Fighters wthout this video in my head.

[b0ardski]

hanging from a chinbar with the board on is the only way i've found to replicate the position/motion of carving.
Edge balance on the carpet can't hurt though.

[Dave ESPI]

Dave, you are kidding right? The only reason my pants are tight, is because my jeans only just barely will snap on over my lower back brace belt, which I am wearing. That belt is the only thing that keeps me going... It was either snap up my jeans or practice in undies which I think might have been a bit much for the video.... you knew that right......?


yes LOL....
:lol:

Just saying that it looked like your pants were too tight to be a "snowboarder".... Obviously you have regular snowboard pants (as seen in your Avatar pic).

I was just busting yer stones.

no worries! :biggthump

Actualy, I posted the link from the brace to a friend who has a co-worker in similar pain. So I thank-you for sharing about it!

happy trails,
D.

[FTA2R]

1. props to my fellow DC area carvers - whitetail's email (i'm on their list) said they're testing their guns....it was 29 here tonight, not bad.

2. Germantown - i used to work out there (so far!)

3. Rich, not sure how you uploaded teh video, but you should be able to use Windows movie maker (comes with xp) to change the orientation than save it as .wmv or whatever file format

4. i've also tried some carpet exercises, though much different from yours.

5. i have an "ijoy" board, which you may like. with some creativity, it may be good training for bumps. they retail for quite a bit, at least $200, i'll sell it for much less if you're interested. i really don't use it and would prefer it be with someone who would use it. google it you can probably find video of it somewhere.

6. John A is in MD (was right around the Bethesda area as of a year or so ago anyhow)

[Bobby Buggs]

Of course it is not replicating snowboarding, but it sure is a better way to watch football than sitting in a chair.


That sums it up for me:)

[Phil]

For you MD'ers who need a fix, check out Seven Springs! I would recommend my own Bear Creek, but we are opening with two parks and one cruiser - not exactly a carver's dream. Winter is here!

7Springs:

[BadBrad]

Rich,
Thanks for all the info. It looks like that waist belt costs about $300. Kind of expensive, but obviously worth it for the relief you got.

I still use old inversion boots from the 80's to hang upside down from a pullup bar for a few minutes. This provides traction and helps. Even hanging from my arms is good too, especially after running which tends to compress my back.

[carvedog]

Rich,
Thanks for all the info. It looks like that waist belt costs about $300. Kind of expensive, but obviously worth it for the relief you got.

I still use old inversion boots from the 80's to hang upside down from a pullup bar for a few minutes. This provides traction and helps. Even hanging from my arms is good too, especially after running which tends to compress my back.

I occasionally have some lower back issues and go hang on my friends little teeter totter looking thing. It gets you upside down without having to make the reach to the bar to get down.

[rschneid]

The big deal, possibly the biggest, is that I wear this belt whenever. It provides the same concept as inversion (but more - as its actually positive force) but it does it all the time. I have an inversion table. I have been to the chiropracter more times than I can count. The belt replaces (please people no flames here) all of those and multiplies the result many times over. I always wear it when I drive and that alone makes all the difference. I used to dread long drives because of the inevitable low back pain. I wear the belt - there is zero pain. I wear it when I lift weights or go to watch games etc... In other words we are not talking about 10 minutes doing inversion, or 15 minutes at the chiropracter, and the resultants skips and misses - I am talking about 3 -5 hours a day, every day. That level of constant traction can not be achieved any other way that I know of. Net result - I am off pain killers, I have lost about 15 lbs (that was not a goal) but an inadvertant side effect of starting to lift again, because the pain was gone.

This belt can not fix every problem. Any maybe it won't fix yours, but what it does do:
1. Push the lower vertebra apart
2. Support the lower back

It does exceedingly well in a very practical manner.

Rich S.

[BadBrad]

Thanks, Rich.

Back to the topic of carpet/dry-land training, the things that did the most for me last year were the following:
- Lots of stretching (for me that also included yoga poses)
- Wall sits (burns the quads like carving does)
- Bicycle spin classes (good leg strengthening and cardio workout)
- Running hill repeats, including bounding and running backwards (ditto)

For the back, pilates helped me more than anything, but other core strengthening exercises work well too.

I became a new dad earlier this year, so it's been hard to find the time to do many of these exercises this year, but I do run with the jog stroller now and then which is also good cardio and leg strengthening.

[rschneid]

thanks everyone for your comments and advice.
I have modified from rapid switching to just working on holding the balance point on an edge. This seems to be very very useful. I find that working on just holding the edge and being stable (its very hard) allows me to explore what it means to twist the body and alter my weight forward backwards etc. This is much much more inciteful that what I was doing. thanks.

Rich S.

[EnisiWaya]

Rich can I talk to you on PM or telephone my nickel about your back brace and back troubles.

I am incapacitated by degenerative spondylosis of the lumbar, thoracic and cervical spine as a result of injuries sustained back in '73 overseas.


I have been an instructor trainer/clinician for over 30 years. Maybe you can help me with my back and I can help you with the mechanics and dynamic forces as to technique on the snow.

I would really appreciate your help and advice vis a vis the back stuff.

Chase

[rschneid]

Chase, I will call you on this.
Rich Schneider