Zardoz NotWax = Rain-X ?

[Mark.Andersen]

Tahoe is really sloppy these days, so lift chatter often turns to waxing. I rode the lift with a guy today that said that Rain-X (the stuff for you windshield) is basically the same stuff as Zardoz NotWax. I've had pretty good results in spring slush with Zardoz, but at $15 for a thimble full, it's pretty expensive, and you need to reapply alot. Rain-X is $2.49 at the auto parts store and you get 20 times as much.

Anyone out ever tried this?

Mark

[willywhit]

Rain X works well in a pinch. I've only used it once as a goof and it actually makes a difference. Dominator wax is my new favorite. Carbon/Graphite I think. Put a SERIOUS wax on my PureCarve 175 at the US Open at Stratton a few weeks ago. Good Stuff! :D

[underdog]

hey give it a shot and let us know. that zardoz is some great stuff when its wet. i figure you're not really getting base protection with it so why not try something else? they both repel water.....i'd try it mark but my season is kaput,:(, so you'll have to be the guinea pig.

chris

[Jack Michaud]

Perhaps they share some common ingredients, but Zardo's contains graphite, and is black. Not anything you'd ever put on your windshield.

Also, Zardos should be illegal. No snowboard was ever meant to go that fast. ;)

[paappraiser]

not wax is just that-- not wax

its a florinated oil (KryTox)

used in things that need a inert oil (pumps, medical stuff)

and bike chains!!! (go figure)

its Finish Line Victory Lube Booster Shot about $10 for a syringe full



look in the dry lubes section.

For 14 its not a bad deal for the puck though..


Since I never have used no wax, do you have to strip you base clean of all wax??

....

Just a off thought, why not disolve your favorite wax in some naphta and tissue some on? It will leave a nice film.

Just a thought but what do I know... I know naaa-thing.

[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by paappraiser
its a florinated oil (KryTox)

A quick bit of googling seems to support this. So, should I <a href="http://shop.store.yahoo.com/vacuumshopper/krpelu.html">buy some Krytox in bulk</a> to use on my board?

$20 for 2 oz!

[D-Sub]

just curious, but does anyone ever wonder about using this kind of stuff in snow (which melts and becomes drinking water quite often?)

[paappraiser]

KryTox comes in several viscosities, Im assuminug for different usages, and tempature ranges.

http://exceed.dupont.com/Krytox/webpub.nsf/Pages/index.html

Is duponts main page on the product.
Im sure you could email them for a "Professional Sample"

I use to have electronic companies (motorola) send me "demo" chips..

In looking around Duponts web site I think the "General-Purpose Grades -- clear, colorless; nonreactive, nonflammable, long-lasting; fluorinated synthetic oils safe for chemical and oxygen service"

Is probally the product you will be looking for.

http://www.tmcindustries.com/krytox.htm

you can buy a 1 pound bottle for about 103$

http://www.tmcindustries.com/aerosol.htm

I may be wrong but it may be in a small squeeze bottle. (check the MSDS )

... There you go

As far as it getting in the snow and water suply......Hmm

Im SURE dupont would not let anything bad happen to our enviroment!

[paappraiser]

oh by the way, rain x is generally considered
isopropyl alcohol and silicon

Not much there


...

[D-Sub]

hey..paappraiser...

your Goodwill is on the way...:)

[NateW]

Straight from the horse's mouth:
http://www.zardoznotwax.com/html/body_what.html
http://www.zardozcanada.com/whatIsIt.asp

Prices vary!
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/vacuumshopper/krpelu.html
http://www.mdc-vacuum.com/urd/uniface.urd/ec0070w.display?3.4.5

I think the above are greases though, so probably not really what we'd want.

[paappraiser]

Lowes hardware stores has a silicone spray that has Krytox in it.

I noteced it on Duponts website and had to go to Lowes today to get some stuff for the weekend garden project.

And they do have it, big can for about 5$.

[bobdea]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud
Perhaps they share some common ingredients, but Zardo's contains graphite, and is black. Not anything you'd ever put on your windshield.

Also, Zardos should be illegal. No snowboard was ever meant to go that fast. ;)
black I have a refill bottle (looks like something that crack would come in) and its a clear liquid

rain x has silicone which is super fast when its wet swix made a silicone wax that stuff was slick as it gets on wet snow

[nekdut]

So did anyone try out any of these options? Rain-X aerosol, Krytox grease, or silicone spray w/krytox?

I'm just about out of Zardoz. This stuff works so well but it wears out WAY too fast. 5-6 hard runs and its time to reapply. I definitely want something cheaper even if it doesn't last as long.

[paappraiser]

I dont have the ability to try anyting here.. the season is over.

If anyone has a Lowes home center go in the tool section, they have a silicon & krytex spray. I bought a can to lube up my bike and such... Works really good.

Ill buy another can for next year.

[Pre School Rider]

I've tried these various things in the past on my boards to go faster in the Wet. I'll list them in order of success. 1] Zardox Not Wax. It's an additive,or can be used by itself,and also can be considered a 'rub on'.It works in any wet snow at temps above 25*F right on up through the low 70's.Mixed,it makes for iffy wax absorbtion,leaving spots un-waxed.By itself,or added to a wax coat,it's a great add-on,but wears out in half a day.Easy to re-apply though.No harm to the board that I can see. 2] Spray Silicon,from the hardware store. Use only as an add-on.Goes great in warm,wet conditions above 50*F,but seems to 'dry out' unprotected bases,and only lasts a few runs. 3] Silicon-impregnated wax. Have loved this stuff,but it's getting hard to find. Very soft,hard to blend with other waxes,but it a good base-coat on days that go from cold to warm.Works best in the mid twenties up to the low-mid 50's,and lasts as well as you waxed it in.Oh,and can be scraped mid-day,or have one of the two things I mention above added as a rub-on for when it really warms up. 4] F-2 or Swix rub-on Paste.Really dosen't do so well at temps above the mid-40's,and dosen't shed oils or goo at all.Fast when first applied,it wears of quickly.Nice for days you didn't quite wax right,but not good in really warm/wet conditions.Base friendly,and easy to use,good for preventing 'base-burn' on granular snow. 5] Other stupid stuff I've done... :o I've used {in desperate times} Soft-Scrub soap,applied the day before with Scotchbrite pads,when we were faced with 75*F weather at my level 2 AASI exam. Mr. Burt thought of it,I think.Left sudsy bubbles for a lap or two,and did keep the goo at bay.Not fast,but economical,kinda fun,even! ;) I've used Rain-X,once,on my old Sims 1800 raceboard. It never did wax right again,helluva way to kill a classic swallowtail,just for one day's riding. It was at Killington,in mid June,and the temps were in the low 80's.Nothing else I could think of (even spray silicon!) would let the board run for more than a run or two.Rain-X did work for that day,kinda sleazy-fast,but when tried to wax it for summer storage,the wax shed off quickly in lumps.I sold the board the next season,regetted it ever since...

[nekdut]

I definitely wont be trying Rain-X after your story. I'll just bite the bullet and purchase more zardoz refills.

Unless someone tries out that Krytox/silicon stuff and has good results =).

[Neuffy]

lol.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3809734467&category=7321
1 Gallon...scary price, though...

[Mark.Andersen]

Thanks for all the responses. I ended up buying both, but only using the Zardoz. Like I said, the Zardoz works well but is spendy. The thing that turned me off to the Rain-X was the obvious use of some type of alcohol in the solution. The Zardoz doesn't have much odor, but the Rain-X smells strongly of alchol. I feared that the alcohol could have some drying effect on the base material.

So, I employed a few methods on various boards. Here are the results.

1. Dry base (little to no wax) with Zardoz. Worked well for a short time, but the effect didn't last long.
2. Wax only, no Zardoz. I used One Ball Jay Summer Slush wax, and I have to say that the stuff is quite good. Compared to a board waxed with OBJ Warm wax, the difference was huge. Great stuff.
3. Wax with Summer Slush, apply Zardoz, go ride. The best of both worlds. Board was super glidey for the entire day.

The $15 investment in Zardoz kept my boards sliding well for 8 full days (reapply at lunch) before running out. Combined with the cost of the block of Summer Slush ($4 on sale) I figure that $2.25/day isn't too much money to get much more enjoyment out of a spring day. Considering that stopping an hour or two earlier due to sticky snow would have cost me more than $10/day in beers at the bar, the investment was well worth it.

Mark

[paappraiser]

So you waxed it and then applied zardoz over the wax ?

[Mark.Andersen]

Yessir, wax normally, then rub on Zardoz.

[paappraiser]

Incase anyone wants to divy up the bounty.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1267&item=3810331960&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[Neuffy]

damn it all...they don't ship to Canada.

As I plan to snowboard 120 days straight next year, this would be a godsend...I'd buy it, right now, if I could.

hm...If anybody wants to divy it up 50/50 or something, and there isn't any problem getting it from you to me here in Canda, I'm game...really. (Assuming no one here thinks that this may be a different grade of Krytox unsuitable for snowboarding...Krytox comes in 10-60 grades..(# of CH2 groups in middle I think).
---
Compared to Zardoz @ $20 CND/$15.99 USD per 15g=0.0401884 lb

$131 CND/$100 USD / 4 lb

Puck at a time: $500.00CND/$382.00USD / lb
Bulk:====== : $32.75CND/$25.00USD / lb
well, damn!

:D

ps. someone please correct me if I'm wrong...

[paappraiser]

the question you have to ask is the viscosity.

krytox has 3 (that I can find) liquids @40o
1506 with a viscosity of 64cp
1514 with a viscosity of 148cp
1525 with a viscosity of 276cp

since i have never used zardoz here is a quick chart
if you can kinda tell the difference in viscosity.

Water @ 20°C 1.002 cP
Linseedoil (Boiled) 64cP
Corn oil 72cp
Olive oil @ 20°C 84.0 cP
Light machine oil @ 20°C 102 cP
Motor oil SAE 10 50-100cP 65cP
Motor oil SAE 20 125cP
Motor oil SAE 40 250-500cP 319cP

so does it seem closer to corn oil or 20grade motor oil or 40 grade..

lol

ill toss $20 in for the experiment. get a few more people divy it with cheap $1 bottles,ship it out..

Better do it quick if anyone wants..

[Neuffy]

I see you've bid. So nobody else overbid! :P

hm..it IS an oil, not a grease, thankfully.
this is Krytox 1514, slightly different than the Krytox R901 used in Zardoz....lessee....operating range -57/177 degrees celcius while R901 (zardoz notwax) operates down to -71 degrees celcius...

I'd hazard a guess that 901 has a relative viscosity of 901 compared to 1514's viscosity of 1514. So 1514 is more viscous. It should be, as it's classed for vacuum applications.

It'll probably end up being slightly less efficient at very low temperatures, but may last longer. I'm assuming no one wants to use it below ~-50 C?

[Neuffy]

hmmm...on second thought, even if it ends up not being suitable for snowboards, I know that at least I can find a use for it just as a lubricant for my tech stuff.

Just make sure it's tested first on an old board...I know I want to test it on my old ~2000 Salomon Classic 163...No harm possible there.

There may or may not be a problem with base absorption: higher viscosity Krytox means bigger molecules. I don't know if they'd be big enough to prevent proper absorption or not.

[paappraiser]

yea
I bid on it for kicks and giggles.
At worst ill use it on my bike chain..lol


If I win and anyone wants to try a little wipe, I will ill put a little in a baggie and mail it to you .. probally for a dollar or two and a sase.

It is the middle of the road, the 1506 is probally closer to ideal.
But if it goes for my bid ill be willing to risk it. So no one else bid :)

the specs are very close

Specs 1506 1514 1525
Vapor Press. 1x10-6 1x10-7 1x10-8
Pour Point -50oC -45oC -35oC
Flash Point None None None
Fire Point None None None
Boiling Point 0.5 Torr >250oC >250oC >250oC
Density 1.88 g/ml 1.89 g/ml 1.90 g/ml
Viscosity cSt@40oC 64 148 276
Viscosity cSt@100oC 4 7.5 10

Fomblin has a solvent that is sold as a diluent. So that could help, but doesnt (or does it?) change the problem .

From my understnading the Krytox R901 is not all that great at lower temps anyhow. Its more of a summer slush item.

Does anyone have a board they want to sacrafise to the cause?

[Neuffy]

ya, I've got a board or two...My old Kemper "kevlar reinforced" board would do perfectly.

I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. But if I really kill a board, fine by me...unless it happens to be the Swoard I intend on getting :eek:

Anybody know what the viscosity of R901 is?