Last day for MADDs

[RJ-PS]

I see that this is the last day to order a new MADD. I am having an issue convincing my wife I need another board, although perhaps once I get a madd I will be able to sell all my other boards? Beside the point.<br>
The question......is there a weight issue involved? I would like to get the 158 because I don't have a short carving board, but I weigh 200 lbs. <br>
And another question of lesser importance to me, if I get the 158 will I be able to sell all my other boards?
Thanks for all the help guys! Regardless of whatever else is going on in the posts, I still use this board to increase my knowledge of hardbooting.

[Jack Michaud]

I think it would be better for your size, and it's equally as magnificent. I liked the 170 better just because I like a longer board anyway. Anything <163 is too much of a constant balancing act for my taste, but people obviously love the 158 too. If I read the vibe at the ECES correctly, the nod went to the 170. I thought it was a comfortable size while being lively and playful.

If you get the 170, you'd be able to sell anything in your quiver in the range of about 163-180.

Also I think they may extend the deadline to Friday, but you should consider that a rumor for now.
-Jack

[nekdut]

Aww man. I already have my order down for a 170, but im REAL tempted to also get a 158. Someone stop me! :D

[Mike T]

I didn't get on the original mailing list for these... can someone give me the scoop?

[nekdut]

Its a $100 deposit by tomorrow to reserve your board. The total price is $500, or $540 with a full grind+tune, and $20 for shipping. The 170 and 158 are the same price and delivery is supposed to be midsummer.

They need 25 orders of each type to do a production run. I sure hope enough of us have placed our order. =)

The other Madd thread has links to paypal in your deposit.

[Mike T]

I take it the boards do not have the super fancy ptex 5000 base at that price

[nekdut]

You know I was under the impression that it would have ptex 5000, but they did not make any indication of this from the email. They just said it would be the classic Madd construction that retails for $800.

I sure hope it is ptex 5000 though =).

[D-Sub]

so is that right then? $500?

[Mike T]

I think I'm going to have to pass this time anyways, already got another Coiler coming next season... hopefully they'll do another run later and maybe by then I'll be a good enough rider to actually make good use of a Madd!

[GeoffV]

I talked to Madd Mike at the ECES about the base. He is looking into new materials for a fancy base. The base that was on the demo's will not be on the final Madds.

[eddie]

"Madds have forward-loaded camber, which requires a more aggressive carving technique and takes a bit of getting used to."
-carver's almanac

Though I would bring that issue up since you were talking about weight/board flex issues with the Madd. Bordy rides the 158 and before I read that quote he did mention to me that the 158's are tricky.

Here is the rest of the carver' almanac info about the Madd boards-

"The 170 cm length board is easy to ride and is suitable for beginners. It has incredible edge hold, and lets you concentrate on your technique without worrying about maintaining a precise center of mass. Optionally, you can throw your weight forward, and the board will convert all the force into speed without folding at the nose. As a result, it's possible to perform diving turns on ice, and to maintain speed on the flats. The board feels like two boards in one:
First you concentrate on throwing your weight into the nose and letting it propel you forward.
Then you shift your weight back, and you can almost hear the tail click into engagement and lock in for the rest of the turn.
The 158 cm length (8.8 M radius) board requires an advanced weight-forward technique and is not suitable for beginners. Whereas on the 170 cm model you can optionally throw your weight forward, it's mandatory on the 158. It is also necessary to maintain a more precisely balanced center of mass to get the optimal edge hold characteristics. It offers the unusual combination of small sidecut radius and high stability, which is optimal for narrow runs. The 158 also proves one corollary: the length of a board does not necessarily matter."

[Shred Gruumer]

The old base was sweet! it does not hold wax as well but it looks cool as hell and hard.. very durable ,,BTW how fast do you want to go on a 158 any way!

Put Zardoz Not Wax on it! if you need to go faster! really just as Jack, when we put it on his Board!

Please! give me the cool speckle cork board base!

Shred!

[GeoffV]

Shred, Mike did mention wanting to keep the look of the speckle base, because it is unique and well the Madds are one of a kind. CMC, Shaggy, you guys now what the plans are for the base?

[nils]

Ptex is a trademark of german company IMS.
Their current flagship is the 4000 electra "galium" that has 15% of carbon inside. They are actually test riding ( world cup skieers do ride on them this season ) an 4000 R that will have less tendency to get dry, and has more gliding possibilities ( if its still possible to go faster than a 4000 E!)

Range is:
4000 R ( still in test)
4000 E (also called Electra or Electra galium)
2000 E
2000
1000 ( I think they stopped producing the 1000 )

Anything above 4000 is not Ptex, its likely to come from competitor Isosport, and they have ( sounds like AMD/Intel/ PPC race) 5000, 6000 and 7000 bases that they cannot call Ptex...

Am not sure about what numbers are equivalent to the 4000 E but there should be a top range stuff that does... maybe someone has a clue...

So if the madd has some Ptex its not 5000 ! its the other brand.
Might be a good idea to know exactly what base u get :)

Nils

[Jon Dahl]

while listening to Scott Firestone talk to the Madd guy, the new boards won't have the old type base, I guess the material isn't available anymore. I think the demos had p-tex 2000 (?) bases but am not sure. They were discussing base materials and they are looking at other materials but am not personally sure what they were. Scott or Madd Mike should pipe up here and explain further. Scott's comments should be right on 'cause he spent a lot of time on the Madds @ SES.

[Doug M]

Let me get this straight.All they need is an order for 25 boards and can't get enough orders to do a production run???No wonder all the board manufacturers bailed on alpine.I want to know who all the dopes are who sent money to someone who can not support a 25 board production run.What happens if you have a quality problem???If they cannot get the capital to fund a few boards how do you think they would/could handle a problem with them???What's the deal????? Leap of Faith???

Doug M

[cliffh]

I am another one of those dopes. I'm getting a 170.
Alpine is small so when a board like this becomes available you jump. We're talking about a snowboard, not a space shuttle - it's not rocket science.

[D-Sub]

Im a dope too. I figured the reputation is enough to jump.

still gonna get a coiler too...two sick ass new boards to ride next year.

unless the MADD thing doesnt work out?

[Kirk]

Dope #3 here. And by the looks of it, the "dopes" run from east coast to west coast! What is happening to this country... they've all gone MADD!!:D

[nekdut]

I have faith in the Madd team. They totally came through on an issue I had with a used demo prototype board, so I am confident that if anything happens to the new boards, they'll be there 100%. And with the construction methods they use to make their boards, I HIGHLY doubt anyone will ever have problems with their Madd =). Just ride it and ride it until you've worn through all of your ptex!

[Jack Michaud]

just call me dopey!

[GeoffV]

Any other dopes tempted to get on each (158, 170). I've got a deposit on a 170, but I also want a 158 :p. Can't beat the price

[Shred Gruumer]

Yep , Funny I rode bof uv em! they are both different, and rock in different ways...but dang good construktion! don't need faith if YOUR MADD! I had to have both, so IM GETTING BOTH! It just plain silly to pass up a board like this, so ya gotta get both! heck I was thinking of double it.. cause you know once there made,,, 10 years from now someone will pay more,, its like a Ducati! Its uniquie should see da MADD in da Gugenheim next to the 916!

Right said Shred!:mad:

[Jim Callen]

With all of us dopes here, I don't see how they'll have trouble meeting the 25 board minimum.

[ncermak]

can I still be a dope? I am thinking 158 (225/5'9) as I am looking for a slalom type board, but may have to 170 it. I still need to ride one, but I may just be dopey enough to order blind...

[trailertrash]

i have a prior wcr 164. how would a madd compare to it?

[Jack Michaud]

Originally posted by trailertrash
i have a prior wcr 161. how would a madd compare to it?

The 170 would be more different than the 158 would be to your 161. I heard of a few people at the ECES who really liked the 161.

[Mellow Yellow]

I'm a dope..your a dope..wouldn't you like to be a dope too....

<------ I think my dog was on dope in this picture..... :eek:

[pokkis]

<--- I'm high too.

[joecarve]

I was clean until Mike started dealin' that 158 in CO...

joe...

[Jim Callen]

I tried the prior wcr 164 at ECES. I also rode the Madd 158 and 170 for hours. It seemed to me that the prior would be a great board in great conditions, but that friday when I used it it was pretty rough near the end of the day and I just couldn't get it to hold edge as well as I could the Madds.

Jim

[trailertrash]

what level of flex does the 170 have? stiffer than my prior or softer?

[mtnken]

Just picked up my new 175 GS from Donek. But I gotta send the 100 for the 170. Gotta love it:D

[Jim Callen]

I'm not really sure exactly. It felt like the nose was a bit softer thand the 170, but other than that I wasn't really able to tell. I didn't get many runs on it.

Jim

[Helmut Karvlow]

After 16 years of riding, the MADD is the ONLY board I have ever been on and had to own one.:p Shaggy had to pry it off me for other people to try.:mad:

[Mike T]

... with a 170. :D

[lonerider]

Which board would be better for a light weight rider like my (5'8" 147 lbs). I'm pretty much a novice hardbooter so I'm not sure whether I would truly benefit from such a board (would I become spoiled by the edge hold?). BTW, I ride on the west coast in Lake Tahoe so ice pretty much doesn't exist over here for the most part... just extremely firm hardpack with occasional death cookies.

I have a decent toeside, but very crappy heelsides still, I think I'm hunched over too much and that is preventing my from squaring my shoulders to my board. Also I'm still working on getting my butt over my board.

Check it out at my interim homepage.
http://home.comcast.net/~atchang/

Just wondering if the 158 or 170 would be better for me, if either. I have a lot of practice/learning to do. Dammit... I'm suppose to *not* buy a new board at least for another season since I figure buying a new board is not going to make me a better rider (which is different from riding better).

[Skully]

The last day to order the MADDs has been bumped to April 15th.

Should I?

Shouldn't I?

How to talk the wife into letting me buy another board...............

[Shred Gruumer]

Who wheres the pants?

Make up something,, keep it at work,, hide it!

just buy one! or else..

Sure glad I don't got one of those things....what do you call em again......

Master!

Right said Shred!:(

[pokkis]

Tell her that you need them both, 158 and 170. If she says no, be nice guy and accept that and settle for only one :D

[Mellow Yellow]

Turn it around and ask her why she needs so many pairs of shoes...

:D

[Mike T]

Originally posted by lonerider
Dammit... I'm suppose to *not* buy a new board at least for another season since I figure buying a new board is not going to make me a better rider (which is different from riding better).

In my limited and non-expert experience - getting a new board has helped me become a better rider. I've been able to break through some plateaus this season not only because I've had the good fortune to ride with better riders who want to help me, but also because I was on a board that I felt truly comfortable on, and I could focus 100% on what I was trying to learn, rather than feeling my shins rattle or worrying about face-planting.

I can measure my improvement by getting back on my other board and knowing that I handle that one better now too.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Mike T
I can measure my improvement by getting back on my other board and knowing that I handle that one better now too.

But was it the board? or the extra days of practice and lessons that you had on the board?

Still trying to see if a 170 would be too long for a 145 lbs person like me and/or if the 158 is too unforgiving.

[Mike T]

Originally posted by lonerider
But was it the board? or the extra days of practice and lessons that you had on the board?

Still trying to see if a 170 would be too long for a 145 lbs person like me and/or if the 158 is too unforgiving.

It was the board. Definitely.

The "old board" is my Axis 172 and the "new board" is my Coiler PR 184. The Axis is snappier but less forgiving, the Coiler is damper and easier riding.

When I'm on the Axis I feel like 50% of my brain is thinking about "handling the board" and that leaves 50% to think about technqiue. When I'm on my Coiler I feel like 5% of my brain is thinking about "handling the board" and that leaves 95% to concentrate on what I'm trying to learn. Make sense?

Also note the sidecuts - 13 m on the Coiler means I can ride it hard and still have time to let each turn sink in. The 10 m Axis means if I ride it hard the turns are BANG BANG BANG and I don't get as much time to let the feeling "sink in".

I try learn new things on my Coiler and then "test myself" by trying to do the same thing on my Axis. I always find I need to fine-tune the lesson a bit to get it to work on the Axis.... it's snappier and has a tighter sidecut which does indeed seem to translate into less margin for error and less time to regroup from a mistake! (Also, I find the more forward stance easier, and that means either a less comfortable stabnce on the Axis or underhang, neither of which helps)

If I were actually *talented* I'm sure I'd progress faster on just about anything! But my talent has limits and I'm aware of them, so I use gear to help me learn faster and enjoy myself more. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer it the other way around, but I'm having such a good time I'm not about to complain ;)

[lonerider]

Ok, sounds like the 170 is better for a beginner like me... but will it be too long for my spindly 145 lbs body?

[John]

I tried, but I couldn't resist buying a 158 after all I've heard about them. I guess I'll spend all summer looking forward to riding it. (and working on my car)

[Cheri]

Every chance I got, this season, I would step up to the next level. That meant getting on the 170 as soon as the "experts" said I was ready. Now, I ride the steeps better than the easy stuff. BTW, I'm 5'7 and a lot less than 145lbs. I love the 170 and will ride the 158 and 170 next season. I need them both too Shred!!! I had 3 of the best coaches and Madd experts and they never said it was too much board for me. Now, I'm a believer.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Cheri
Every chance I got, this season, I would step up to the next level. That meant getting on the 170 as soon as the "experts" said I was ready. Now, I ride the steeps better than the easy stuff. BTW, I'm 5'7 and a lot less than 145lbs. I love the 170 and will ride the 158 and 170 next season. I need them both too Shred!!! I had 3 of the best coaches and Madd experts and they never said it was too much board for me. Now, I'm a believer.

"Occupation? Madd Snowboards, Sales and Operations "

JK, I'm very sure you are being sincere in your comments and so I am interested in your thoughts... in particular because you are a lighter weight rider (seems like everyone is 170+ here).

So you like it better than your Prior 4WD? What size do you have? If you find the longer length to be "cumbersome"? (158 vs 170). I rode a 4WD it felt a little "long" and "stuff" to me. Roughly what level of proficiency did you require before you were "ready" for the 170 as you mentioned. You mentioned having 3 coaches and Madd experts and I won't have that luxury myself.

Thanks

[Cheri]

Madd is my new passion. I hopped on the Madd team so we could all ride the Madds next season. My 170 is old and getting ready to retire. My motivation was selfish. I NEED a new one for next season.

My learning board was a 154 Wild Duck. I got on the 170 about a month into the season and after my first lesson. I got back on the Duck one day for a couple of runs and gave it away a couple weeks later. My Prior 4wd is a 159. I rode that on the softest days. A really fun board on those days that I'm happy to have. Even though the 158 is a shorter board, it's much stiffer and requires strenth and skill to ride well. The 170 gives me enough time to "put it all together." As far as not having skilled riders to coach you, I know I would not have come as far this season without them. My goal this season was to ride a Madd. My goal next season is to ride a 158, well.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Cheri
Madd is my new passion. I hopped on the Madd team so we could all ride the Madds next season. My 170 is old and getting ready to retire. My motivation was selfish. I NEED a new one for next season.

My learning board was a 154 Wild Duck. I got on the 170 about a month into the season and after my first lesson. I got back on the Duck one day for a couple of runs and gave it away a couple weeks later. My Prior 4wd is a 159. I rode that on the softest days. A really fun board on those days that I'm happy to have. Even though the 158 is a shorter board, it's much stiffer and requires strenth and skill to ride well. The 170 gives me enough time to "put it all together." As far as not having skilled riders to coach you, I know I would not have come as far this season without them. My goal this season was to ride a Madd. My goal next season is to ride a 158, well.

So are you saying this is your first season on hardboots and rode a month with your Wild Duck 154 and then switch to a 170? Or have you been riding the Duck for a while and only discovered the Madds this season?

My "learner board" is a Burton Ultraprime 162 which I'm not sure if I like it or not. It doesn't seem as stable as the other boards (4WD 168, 174) I've tried as it tends to "hop" on me on my heelsides, but I was wondering if that was due to poor technique as many people ride Burton boards without such issues. I have considered Mike T's perspective on the issue that a smoother riding board will let me concentrate more on technique.

[Jim Callen]

This is my first season on hardboots and I rode an Oxygen Proton 178. I'm 5'5", 160 lbs. I broke the proton at ECES and was forced to demo boards for the rest of my stay. I tried some doneks, and some priors. Not bad boards at all.

I got hooked on the Madds, though. I rode the 158 for the majority of the time I was there and it was incredible. Went to the 170 and loved it even more. So yes, it is possible to use the Madds as your "learner board." That's what I'm going to be doing. :D


Oh, and in regards to the board chatter you get on your heel side, I have the same problem. Thanks to Shred though, I'm in th process of fixing that by really getting my back arm forward, forcing my shoulders to be perpindicular to the board.


Jim

[P06781]

Has the last day been extended to april 15th ? Were is the thread to paypal the $? I guess I am game for a 170...

Jim

[Hans]

Originally posted by P06781
Has the last day been extended to april 15th ? Were is the thread to paypal the $? I guess I am game for a 170...

Jim

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1995

greets, hans

[Hans]

Post on Catekforum.

Re: MAD about MADD
Author: John Gilmour
Date: 04-02-04 12:29

So Banker got some demos pressed. Mr. Sams, did you place an order? Actually we need a few more board orders to put us over the top for a production run- we are currently just short by about 5 boards.

Knowing how impoverished the carving community is....(myself included) we extended the deadline to April 15th.... Tax time- though hopefully some of you may be getting refund checks from the IRS. (The weekday warriors who seem to really clamour for the decks...they would fall in this category- again, myself included.)

Some people were asking for specs..

from memory...

158 cm Slalom (race ready pro slalom deck)
147 cm effective edge
880cm sidecut
18 cm waist (shell sizes up to 28.5 mondopoint can fit on this deck because it flares so radically from the waist)
Characteristics - Super quick transitions for sl turns, good edge hold for high speed gs style turns, loves ice, responds quickly to rider input- very turn shape friendly, will hold speed at low angles of tilt and at extreme angles of tilt over 70 degrees will agressively dump speed- you may carve hard to brake....no skidded turns are necessary.

Ideal terrain: IDEAL for crowded trails. Not good in slush or deep lose granular- yet excellent for end of the day destroyed trail conditions and scraped off snow. Aggressive rider input is rewarded- passive riding will not bring out the best in this board- you gotta work it.


170 GS (Consumer GS, Banked slalom, boardercross, loose slalom)
157 cm effective edge
1050cm sidecut
18cm at waist (top shell size recc. 28.0)

Characteristics- Smooth deployment of GS turns, very snow condition versatile- handles crud, some pow, ice and chop with aplomb, harder to make tight sl turns quickly but if forced will do them and not loose much speed, easy to ride- requires little rider energy to cruise, very stable at speed. Loves wide steep pitches. Lands air as if on autopilot- successfully used in air applications where plates are desired. Best choice for first Madd deck.

Ideal terrain: Nearly anything except moguls- shines on steeps and chalk.

180 Super G
167cm effective edge
22 meter sidecut
18cm at waist (top shell size recc. 27-27.5!!!!!)

With such a huge sidecut the board flares little fom the waist large boots will overhang. Adding lift is not a solution--- you could get stuck in a carve if you add lift.

Characteristics- This board will loose minimal speed in a turn. Forget moguls. Smooth cord and prepped race courses only. Do not try to land air on this board- if you land off balance you will not be able to turn to recover. Boards requires at least 25-35mph before it feels "normal". Board comes into its own at speeds of 45+ mph and offers what seems to be limitless edge hold. For the safety of others you should be an extremely high level rider to even consider purchasing this board. To turn this board you must be able to bend the deck- if you are proficient at this it is possible to carve medium radius turns with considerable effort. A Donek 197 will feel considerably eaiser to manuver than this deck- our sidecut makes this feel like a 205- 210cm board.

Ideal terrain: Large open super wide and medium steep pitches Sun Valley Idaho ( I could see this a great place to carve at 65mph), Europe, Rocky Mountain wide trails. (If the pitch is too steep you will not be able to dump speed) Not to be used in crowded areas. Target rider weight is 170+.

[Jack Michaud]

I thought the 170 had an 11.2m radius??

[Hans]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud
I thought the 170 had an 11.2m radius??

You are right Jack.

Greets, Hans

[Cheri]

Originally posted by lonerider
So are you saying this is your first season on hardboots and rode a month with your Wild Duck 154 and then switch to a 170? Or have you been riding the Duck for a while and only discovered the Madds this season?

I have considered Mike T's perspective on the issue that a smoother riding board will let me concentrate more on technique.

I started riding the Duck last year in February over the break. After that I rode a handful of times last season. So yes, I pretty much started this season in hardboots. I know I haven't ridden the 170 to it's potential but I have grown with it and will continue to. It's such a bummer that it's the end of the season. I would tell you to try one so you wouldn't have to take anyones word for it.

[Marilyn Cambers]

Skully .... way back there .... I've got a better idea. Take your wife to the mall ... that is GO WITH HER AND BE REALLY HAPPY AND INTERESTED ABOUT IT .. buy her new make up and perfume and a new outfit, then go out to dinner ... spend some cash! You should be able to get both boards, no questions asked!

Me, I am considering one since the extension ... hmmm .. I'm just a beginner, did not get to ride one, but have heard GREAT things about both boards!

Great job MADD team!!

Marilyn ;)

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Cheri
I started riding the Duck last year in February over the break. After that I rode a handful of times last season. So yes, I pretty much started this season in hardboots. I know I haven't ridden the 170 to it's potential but I have grown with it and will continue to. It's such a bummer that it's the end of the season. I would tell you to try one so you wouldn't have to take anyones word for it.

Well it looks like I'm going to end up trying on the hard way... joecarve is getting the 158 as well (maybe we could swap for a day next season). Yea I wanted to try the board out... but naturally your demo program was somewhat limited. Maybe now that you have a few boards sprinkled about the country people can borrow them for a few runs and see what they are like.

I AM A PIONEER! paving the way for future MADD riders... jk

Well, I guess I deserved a birthday present anyways :D

[tilledog]

It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission....

Davo

[eddie]

Are the inserts still going to be made of brass?

[nekdut]

And did anyone ever find out about the base material?

[lonerider]

Originally posted by eddie
Are the inserts still going to be made of brass?

That was a question I had... will the inserts require special size screws?

[Rob-CanCarve]

Made the decision last night at 11:00 PM - not like waiting to the last moment.

Put the money down for a new Madd 170

Rob

[John Gilmour]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud
I thought the 170 had an 11.2m radius??

You are correct...in one run of 170's....the very first run (They were labeled 168's because.......horrors...they are) those were 11.2 sidecut and we felt that at 10.5 they would be the perfect consumer GS deck- without sacrificing too much turn versatility that you would find yourself sorely missing the 158.

I believe the re-releases will be 10.5..... as the boards were that were marked 170cm.

Only about 3 decks were 11.2 cm sidecuts...and one of those boards specs ended up in a buyers guide spec sheet.

There is plenty of overlap in turn radii of the 158 and 170- so you will always be able to choose the right deck for the job....and if you chose wrong, you probably will be able to deal with it for the rest of the day.
________
FORD MODULAR ENGINE (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine)

[Pre School Rider]

I rode Shaggy's Prototype up at Stratton about a month ago. (btw,JG,I posted a review up on Freecarve.) It had Stainless Inserts,but they were still rcessed some into the deck,and I don't see any way around that in production.I don't have specifics on the layup on the new run,but some things won't be easily changed,and insert depth/topsheet thickness would be two items that would be tough to deal with. As for base material,a return to the original base is something I dearly hope for.That stuff was amazing!! Heck,I'd love to see it some other boards I can think of that I wear the p-tex off of.

[John Gilmour]

I have several sets of screws that will fit cateks for the recessed screws- and I believe Fin has bomber screws that will fit.
________
Nummi (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/NUMMI)

[Mike T]

John, do the screws need to be 2mm longer than "normal"?