Why politics should not be discussed here.

[Jack Michaud]

Originally posted by Phil
There may be a lot of people who know quite a bit about snowboarding on this forum, but there are few if any who know anything about what is REALLY going on in politics. The reality is that most of us know only rhetoric. (myself included) We have only bought into the entertainment aspect of politics. If we ever actually had a candidate that would make a huge difference, we would not vote for them. They would have too much integrity to play the game. If they did not play the game, we would not think that they were worth voting for. We don't want a good politician, we want someone who can act like a good politician and use the rhetoric that we think is befitting of a "good politician".

My $0.02 as a moderator....

What he said. People like Nader, Dean, Sharpton, Perot, Keyes, Forbes, and Buchanan come to mind. Phil is right on. I'll bet nobody here knows exactly which way is up, and that everyone is a hypocrite to some degree.

What good ever comes out of discussing politics with your friends? Has anyone here ever actually changed someone's vote or party affiliation? I really doubt it. IMO, "discussing" politics only leads to "arguing" politics, which leads to tainted or destroyed friendships.

<b>The alpine snowboarding community is small enough as it is.</b> Why alienate half this forum with your political beliefs? Especially this year when our only two choices are so <i>not</i> worth getting excited about. Any regular of this forum should consider themselves "friends" with any other regular. Because someday we'll all probably meet at an Expression Session, or randomly at some resort, or we may buy stuff off each other, or whatever. What if you meet someone from here, or you need someone's help or advice and you realize that you already despise their political beliefs? Or worse - that they already despise you?

I also read a motorcycling mailing list. Political discussion used to be no-holds-barred there. You name it, taxes, gun control, war, peace, abortion, homosexuality, religion, it was all out in the open. That list has created sworn enemies for life. People there have standing vows to kick other people's asses if they ever meet in person. I don't think this community can withstand that crap.

There is one individual here at BOL who once posted a long diatribe of his political beliefs, leaving no stone unturned, and making no uncertainties about who are his enemies. I have lost all respect for that person, and all his posts are hereafter tarnished in my eyes (and many other's eyes, I know). I don't want that to happen again. It is sickening and pointless.

Arguing politics online rarely changes anyone's opinion, but it <i>always</i> creates enemies. Of that, you can be certain.
-Jack
(these opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent the other moderators or administrator here)

[Marilyn Cambers]

Right on Jack!!!!

The politicians of the group should check out rules ##4 and 8 of the Rules and Guidelines for this Forum -- hmmm did you create those too? :D

Marilyn ;)

[Rusty]

I once heard it put this way...
Stay away from the three G's and every one gets along...God, Guns and Government.

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by Rusty
I once heard it put this way...
Stay away from the three G's and every one gets along...God, Guns and Government.

3 gs and a D

(drugs)

[Jack Michaud]

Originally posted by dalv
I cast my vote for Jack Michaud as President

Sweet. I'm hereby announcing my write-in candidacy. The first person to post a picture of their ballot with my name on it will receive a free ECES t-shirt. My platform is this: skiers and snowboarders who can't carve will pay higher taxes, and all resorts will have to have at least 3 trails blocked off for carvers only.

Rob McBroom will be my running mate.

[D-Sub]

dont forget hot chocolate

[Jon Dahl]

Phil makes a good point, up to a point. Jack is right, we will not likely change anyones opinion with an arguement. I take issue with the statement of not knowing whats up. It is very simple to have more than a clue, if you are willing to look. Its the layers of nonsense that take a little prying to get to the bottom of. Just take a look at where each person/party stands on your basic constitutional rights, you know, the unaLIENable ones. With the religious right's involvement in the Republican party( which puts me at odds with them, as a christian), you can see that they are no friends of the first amendment, and there is much more to follow. This forum is no place to even think of expounding that topic. The Democrats are absolutily no friends of the second amendment, and their party platform says as much. I will vote this November, and I'll vote my consience, so i will not vote for either party. 'Nuf said. Let's keep it here in this thread only, get it out of our systems and stay friends. THAT is my intent. Have good turns, Jon

[cmc]

you could all be like me and log a lot of days in on the hill, after tuning, eating and sleeping, you wont have time to vote or know what the heck is going on to even make it matter. ;)

[Steve Dold]

Jack, I see your point. But I also belong to a web site that is almost exactly like this one, and in fact uses the same software, but is for airplanes (cessna140.com). We had the same problem of politics entering the airplane discussions and causing hard feelings, so the admin created a forum called "Off-topic" for anything non-flying related. All nasty arguments moved there by orders of the admin :-)

That area instantly became the most popular part of the site, with all kinds of hot-tempered political discussions. But the interesting part was that, no matter how much tempers flared there, no bad feelings seemed to carry over to the regular forum. People would call each other names over civil rights or USA-bashing or Al Sharpton or whatever, and then have friendly exchanges back in the main forum. It probably works because most of the name calling is good-natured.

I don't know if Fin would consider creating a third "Off-topic" forum in addition to carving and classifieds, but it worked on cessna140.com to fix the exact problem that's beginning to appear here, and it made the site a lot more entertaining.

[Jack Michaud]

An off topic forum is one valid idea. However when you say that everything is all hunky-dory in the on-topic forum, I just don't buy that.

I know what you're talking about, the moderator of my motorcycle mailing list created a politics-only mailing list to get politics off the main list. (that list is now not even 1/10th as popular as the main list, unlike your example, but that's not my point) Now, when somebody who has really pissed me off with their political rants in the past helps me out with a question in the main list, I write back "thanks", but I think to myself, "dick." Maybe that's my own shortcoming, but I'll bet it's human nature.

[Steve Dold]

Here's our "Off-Topic" forum, it's pretty entertaining.

http://www.cessna140.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?&forumid=120

[Jack Michaud]

Originally posted by Steve Dold
Here's our "Off-Topic" forum, it's pretty entertaining.

http://www.cessna140.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?&forumid=120

ugh. No thanks.

[Jon Dahl]

we should ALL be so lucky!!!!

[Chris Houghton]

Jack - I'm with you. Up here in Canada we have no clue about the yue-ess politicking, and frankly we don't care. Kerry snowboards? Who the hell is Kerry? Just some guy as far as I can tell. Let's stick to the one subject we all pretend we know - snowboarding.

[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by Chris Houghton
Up here in Canada we have no clue about the yue-ess politicking, and frankly we don't care.

You are so lucky! We Australians <b>are</b> passionately interested in US politics, because despite not getting to vote for US politicians, we seem to automatically inherit their foreign policy.

[Kent]

Two snowboards

DEMOCRAT
You have two snowboards.
Your neighbor has none.
You feel guilty for being successful.
You vote people into office who put a tax on your snowboards,
forcing you to sell one to raise money to pay the tax.
The people you voted for then take the tax money,
buy a snowboard and give it to your neighbor.
You feel righteous. Barbara Streisand sings for you.

REPUBLICAN
You have two snowboards.
Your neighbor has none.
So?

SOCIALIST
You have two snowboards.
The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor.
You form a cooperative to tell him how to maintain his snowboard.

COMMUNIST
You have two snowboards.
The government seizes both and provides you with materials to make one.
You wait in line for hours to get it.
It is expensive and can’t hold an edge.

CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE
You have two snowboards.
You sell one, buy Sean’s company and build as many Doneks as you want.

DEMOCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE
You have two snowboards.
The government taxes you to the point you have to sell
both to support a man in a foreign country who has only
one snowboard, which was a gift from your government.

FRENCH CORPORATION
You have two snowboards.
You go on strike because you want three snowboards.
You go to lunch.
Life is good.

ITALIAN CORPORATION
You have two snowboards but you don't know where they are.
While ambling around, you see a beautiful woman.
You break for lunch.
Life is good.

RUSSIAN CORPORATION
You have two snowboards.
You have some vodka.
You count them and learn you have five snowboards.
You have some more vodka.
You count them again and learn you have 42 snowboards.
The Mafia shows up and takes over however many snowboards you really have.

TALIBAN CORPORATION
You have all the snowboards in Afghanistan, which are two.
You can’t ride them because you don’t have any bindings. You break them while using them as diving boards and claim a US bomb blew them up.

FLORIDA CORPORATION
You have a Prior snowboard and a Donek snowboard.
Everyone votes for the best one.
Some of the people who like the Prior best, mistakenly vote for the Donek.
Some people vote for both.
Some people vote for neither.
Some people can't figure out how to vote at all.
Finally, a bunch of guys from out-of-state tell you
which is the best.

NEW YORK CORPORATION
You have fifteen million snowboards.
You have to choose which one will be your main ride, so you pick up some fat snowboard from Arkansas.

[Jack Michaud]

LOL - post of the month.

[Jagger]

Kent that was pretty funny.:D Especialy the democracy American style, Too true.:eek:

[Chris Houghton]

Kent - you forget the Enron version, where you lease one back to another of your divisions, then you have three. The three are used as collateral to get capital from offshore investors, which you use to buy 20 more, which are then leased to another of your companies, who then use them for collateral to........................ isn't capitalism great. All from two snowboards. Weren't they Burtons?

[willywhit]

Kent, I find your post very offense, I mean.... amusing.Last weekend my buddy had a big Bush/Satan 2004 bumper sticker on his board that he found in Vail the week before and it raised some eyebrows and comments on the six pack chairs at Stratton.Some were like "right on" and others, not so keen.He also had the "aloha monkey" sticker and that was just HI larious(check out: http://www.sailorjerry.com/store_stickers.php) People need to lighten up and stop taking it all so seriously. Kiters for KERRY! oops......:o

[sic t 2]

Honestly,

The only thing I topic I have ever seen get ugly on this website was that post where Maciek asked for "tuning shop recommendations" a month ago. lol

Sic t 2

[Derf]

Originally posted by Chris Houghton
Jack - I'm with you. Up here in Canada we have no clue about the yue-ess politicking, and frankly we don't care. Kerry snowboards? Who the hell is Kerry? Just some guy as far as I can tell. Let's stick to the one subject we all pretend we know - snowboarding.

I hear you brutha!

Seriously, we have enought to worry about here in Canada, even more so in the province of Québec. For those of you who know what I'm talking about, you understand, and for those who don't know, you don't want to know.

Derf

[mtnpig]

Two snowboards. Thanks, my day started with a smile

[Bordy]

I am Voting for any one who wears hardboots!

And talking Smack about everyone else!

Hardbooter in 2004!!!

Whos with me UHHHH!

( I then run away in a young man faced with the challanges of the world and a canidate to up hold my belif look on my face. I how every only get three feet until I fall flat on my face. I give up one the canidate grab get my ride and go ride instead of pimping the hard boot canadate who loses, and it is all my fault because I went riding!)

Is the world a better place?

My world is cuz I went riding. I would now like to change my vote to a vote for riding.. yea thats the ticket!

[philw]

<shrug> Even the political jokes are so parochial that they make no sense to me. Perhaps it would be more polite to have a separate area for USA politics, so the rest of us can easily avoid it, at least here?

Kerry. It's a county in Ireland. Visit it sometime, but don't take your snowboards. Check out Northern Ireland whilst you're at it, although please don't sponsor anything.

[Jagger]

Go to google type in Weapons of mass destruction and hit I'm feeling lucky. Be sure to read the error message.

[jtslalom]

Kent,
I'm sitting in a high school library reading your post and laughing my but off (I'm a teacher). Kids are looking at me like I am crazy so I invited some over to read it. They also laughed. You have touched the lives of our youth with your post. Keep them coming.

[D-Sub]

you guys have never seen that before? the "political analysis?"

its usually regarding cows tho.

[Kent]

Always happy to provide a little humor to a situation.....
Yep, original work was regarding an old cow email I rec'd.


I hate to get politically complicated...because the differences b/w philosophies can be easily explained through metaphors.

[kjl]

Originally posted by Bob Jenney

“… There are some 10,000 religious sects on the world. Every one of them thinks that they have it right and that the other 9,999 have it wrong or are outright evil.”

“…None of them have convinced me to make the requisite leap of faith...”


I always liked the religion/politics argument that (paraphrasing from somewhere):

"No matter what you believe, thousands of people much, much smarter than you believe the opposite."

[Jack Michaud]

Originally posted by Bob Jenney
OK, I know this takes this thread to a new level that’ll make Jack’s head blow completely off his shoulders,

Coincidentally I agree with those Krakauer quotes, but you posting them here is only stirring the pot. You believe in those statements, just like someone else here believes in opposite theories. No need to discuss either here.

Like I said in the thread that begat this one: we all go to the mountains to flee this type of stuff, why should this site be any different?

[C5 Golfer]

No subject should be ruled out for discussion. I believe it is good fodder for the brain to discuss off topic subjects within a specialized group. I would think it stimulates the thought process and if used and discussed properly it allows us to accept others and not be so discriminate. But most people tend to use discussions of opinions to try and change ones beliefs – just think what a better world we’d be if we could understand and ACCEPT those that have different beliefs than we do? Case in point, I don't mind riding with a Ford lover or a Muslim - but I would like to know and understand why we are different - to make it taboo seems to be the wrong way to allow us to get along with the "others".
Different is OK - :)

[FTA2R]

"carvers for Kerry" "carvers now recognized political demographic" yeah right.

Can we please keep to no politics. I'd like to read about riding here. PLENTY of other forums, sites, etc for politics. some of the arguments have been amusing to read, though.

[Maciek]

Can we block this thread already?

It is just as much provoking as political or religious debate.


You may notice: "look who is talking". Well, some of us, including me, remember such debates on BomberOnline:cool:

Lets stick to carving and racing and any other pleasures... and jokes... just not to politics or religion. After all, this forum is now popular all over the world within different political systems and religions.


Isn't snowboarding one of those things that unites us?

[sic t 2]

I agree with Maciek (the boob). Let's close this thread and get back to the "Madd verses Swoard thread" where chest thumping viagra men bash gays, attack each other personally, make physical threats and talk smack about the subjective. And WE ALL KNOW that one of them is nuttier than fruitcake and in need of serious some psychiatric counseling but we all "dare not say a word" since "thank god he's not on my case". Add in the high minded hypocrisy of this ridiculous thread and we are batting 1,000 on the Bomber Online message board once again!

Sic t 2

[artnshel]

I can't help but chime in which is probably part of the problem with discussions that go awry.

Have you ever changed anyone's mind about politics? I think it's next to impossible. I have strong political beliefs and have tried to change others who's strong beliefs oppose mine and it's fruitless. I've given up. I can believe my only option is to find those in the undecided category to 'enlighten' however I believe most of that group is undecided because they don't really care anyway. So there's really no discussion to have, I rarely see anyone win.

The two cows thing was funny and maybe humor can connect us while politics and religion have proven to divide.

[johann]

Originally posted by Kent
[B

REPUBLICAN
You have two snowboards.
Your neighbor has none.
So?


[/B]

Then you drill for oil in the mountains and clear cut all the forests to get raw goods to make snowboards.
Then you have no where to ride. :p

[Steve Dold]

Speaking of oil, I wish Bush would hurry up and take over Iraq's oil industry, or whatever he was planning to do. I'm sick of paying these prices. We deserve that oil.

[Mellow Yellow]

gritting teeth....trying to keep mouth shut......aaarrghhh



Anyone that wants to debate politics can go to my friends site.... yes we lean a little to the right......

www.starktruth.com

there are only a few of us on there now, but we would gladly welcome some folks to debate with...go to the forum link at the top of the page

:D

[dragonfly jones]

Guys guys.

Kent as always you have hit the nail on the head, good stuff.

Politics and Snowboarding are strange bedfellows. One one hand we can be thankful that the government has leased land to resorts on the other we are soo taxed for buying boards, boots, gloves, hats, goggles, gas to get there, tolls on the freeway etc etc, that is like we are getting a kiss then a slap from a ill mannered woman (or man depending on ones taste).

So Kerry snowboards - wow, so Bush can land IN a plane - wow. We play in and on the snow - WOW. In the grand theme/scheme of things we are out enjoying life like we should be doing. If a little debate on politics shows up here - really what's the difference - you CHOOSE to reply of to BLOW it off. Half of time - we respond to things that are silly and it gives us a chance to rant and rave and puff out or chests. If you choose to make it an issue it will be one, if not it goes away - why pick up the gauntlet that someone throws down over politics or if someone is holier than thou? To take them down a notch? Or would it be a little schadenfreude? Oh well, hey I have an idea - lets go have some fun.

Oh by the way, schadenfreude means: Pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others. Try it in sentence some time.

[Derf]

Originally posted by Steve Dold
Speaking of oil, I wish Bush would hurry up and take over Iraq's oil industry, or whatever he was planning to do. I'm sick of paying these prices. We deserve that oil.

Use less oil, this way you will pay less. Use your car less, if you have a big car (or a truck), get a small one instead.

Simple, no?

Derf

[Steve Dold]

No, I still want it cheaper. My biggest problem is paying $2.75 for avgas. And besides, I am an American. I deserve and demand luxury, and a big car. Let the people in the backward European countries drive the small cars. heh heh

[FTA2R]

Steve,

funny signature


Barry

[Steve Dold]

Thanks! Unfortunately it speaks from experience :rolleyes:

[Kent]

The whole gas issue has me laughing...

People get really pissed about paying a little extra for gas but then:

Are happy to pay the $20 valet
Drive 85 mph
Celebrate new taxation and the officials that promote them
Don't change their oil
Don't check their PSI
Back pro stadium proposals with public funds
Rarely walk or ride their bike to the store
Support subsidized transportation, but don't use it


I think we live is a society where people really just want to bitch and moan than do something about it. Everybody has critism, no one has a plan (that doesn't involve spending money). Sure, sure.....we can live without gas after we spend $75 trillion dollars to convert people live's over to fuel cell!

Just let me keep some money to buy another snowboard next year.......

[knoch]

hey now kent, i've found that my POS ride gets better gas millage at 85mph than posted limits.

[Derf]

Originally posted by Steve Dold
No, I still want it cheaper. My biggest problem is paying $2.75 for avgas. And besides, I am an American. I deserve and demand luxury, and a big car. Let the people in the backward European countries drive the small cars. heh heh

If you can afford the plane and the big car, you can afford the gas to put in.:p

Derf

[Jack Michaud]

Okay, I'm busted, you all sucked me in to talking about oil. The subject of this thread is why politics should not be discussed here. So we could talk about that, but I think that's been beaten around enough.
-Jack

[knoch]

so edit the topic title

[Jack Michaud]

Originally posted by knoch
so edit the topic title

so start a new thread, smart guy! but if it doesn't have something to do with snowboarding, it will be subject to review.

man, the snow is melting fast, eh?

[Kent]

I was just feeding the bears......

;)

[knoch]

don't kid yourself, i'm not smart, and yes the snow is basically gone here...

[Jon Dahl]

so let the bears feed themselves, and I've a couple of inches of fresh last night!

[C5 Golfer]

More oil talk/discussion below. These ideas are from Robin Williams not me so please ignore his comments on anything but the oil concept which is #6 and #7. All others pretend they are not here due to the political ramifications... Robin says read only #6 and #7 Ok;)

THE ROBIN WILLIAMS PEACE PLAN

This may very well be the best thought out item we have read since 9/11/01.
Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan ... what we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message.

I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan.

1. The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Noriega, Milosovich and the rest of those good ol' boys: We will never "interfere" again.

2. We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one sneaking through holes in the fence.

3. All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. France would welcome them.


4. All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5. No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" (for "deport") and it's back home baby.

6. The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing non-polluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.

7. Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides, most of what we give them is stolen or given to the Army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9. Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10. All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. The language we speak is ENGLISH.....learn it...or LEAVE...

Now, ain't that a winner of a plan.
The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying "Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses." She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, "You want a piece of me?"

If you agree with the above forward it to friends.

Amen Brother.............