Help a brother out

[hockey2]

Today was my first day as a hardbooter... and man was I humbled. I have some questions that I hope you guys will help me with. Keep in mind that I've ridden softboot for 20 years so maybe I have some habits that need to be broken.

1. How the hell do you get into the bindings?? Front or rear foot first? I just couldn't seem to get any leverage to clip into the bindings. It took me longer to get into the bindings than it did to go down the slope. If I had to get into the binding on any sort of incline, forget it, the board just kept taking off.

2. Speaking of bindings, I had to loosen the rear foot so I could clamp it down on the boot, next thing you know it keeps popping free on the hill. I managed to link some good carves, but the bindings had me tweaked out because I kept waiting for them to pop.

3. I did "the norm", but I still skidded a lot too. Any sugestions?

4. It was 1 degree today and the snow was nice and firm which I thought would be ideal. Can it be too hard (wasn't icy) or is it just that I suck?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I hope to get back out on Sunday after I get some pointers.

[Rob Stevens]

Put your binders on at home, on the carpet, until you can do it kneeling and standing. If you can't put in on on an incline yet... don't.

If it comes off when you're in it, it's either ****ed, or you need to adjust it. It's probably not ****ed, so you'll have to get someone to show you, or post a pic of it, with the boot in.

Do more turns and the snow's not too hard.

[willywhit]

dude, 1st off
NEVER ride with bindings you could come out of....at any speed.
plates can't be ridden sloppy.
You should post some details and we'll talk ya thru it.
Bitter cold makes gear more likely to break if ridden improperly.
Seriously, be patient, do it right.

and plaigerizing Michelle's sig might be bad form, she's kinda the "queen bee" around here :rolleyes:

and remember not to treat newbies like $hit, esp if they've got 20 years of tray slidin under their belt :biggthump

[hockey2]

dude, 1st off
NEVER ride with bindings you could come out of....at any speed.
plates can't be ridden sloppy.
You should post some details and we'll talk ya thru it.
Bitter cold makes gear more likely to break if ridden improperly.
Seriously, be patient, do it right.



and plaigerizing Michelle's sig might be bad form, she's kinda the "queen bee" around here :rolleyes:

and remember not to treat newbies like $hit, esp if they've got 20 years of tray slidin under their belt :biggthump

I set the bindings up in my basement and torqued them down like it said on the newbie forum. Hard, but not so hard that it takes 2 hands. Well I get to the slopes today and for some reason I couldn't get them down at all. It seemed the way my stance was set up that I couldn't keep my heel down when locking the binding in. So I would concentrate on my heel and my toes would be sliding all around. Then the board would point downhill and I would start sliding. It was like a friggin Benny Hill episode. What should I do?

No way... someone else has that sig? I've been using that for years. I can't even remember where I found it.

[newcarver]

As a newbie, I had some of the same troubles as you. Don't know what kind of bindings your have, but make sure that your boot fits tightly in them. If you have the clip in toe bail it should be pretty stiff to engage. On the hill, you might have to sit down to get your boots in. If it is not flat, I just sit down and click in. It is a lot easier to do if your sitting on a bench or something. Make sure you have your boots clear of snow on the bottom or you will never get the bindings to clamp down on the boot. Definitely takes some getting used to.

[willywhit]

carry a mini screwdriver to adjust and tighten your binders on the hill.
try making a little shelf in the snow to get stable by kicking your heel edge and getting across the fall line facing downhill to clip in your rear foot.
your toe bail should SNAP down tight
oh yeah, welcome to BOL.

[queequeg]

I couldn't tell if you are using intecs (step-in) or standard bindings? This response will be more useful if you are using intec bindings, but what I say about ice/snow would also apply to standard bindings (though ice buildup is slightly less of an issue in that case).

If you have *any* amount of snow or ice stuck to the bottom of your boots, it will prevent your boot from lowering deep enough into the heel-reciever to engage the pins. Make sure that there is no ice or snow stuck to your rear foot, or the rear binding. I suspect that this is part of the problem you were dealing with, and until you figure it out, it can be infuriating to deal with. This is more of a problem on warm days or on your first few runs when your boot soles are much warmer than the outside environment. A good way to prevent this is to let your boots cool before taking your first run, and keep scraping any snow off them with the metal of your bindings (or end of the footrest on the chairlift).

If your bindings are well adjusted and your boot-heel/heel-receiver are ice-free, stepping into the bindings will be fairly simple (if you are on a stable surface) and will produce an audible/satisfying click, letting you know that you are safely clipped in.

And to echo what whillywhit said, if properly working knee, ankle and hip joints are something you enjoy, *don't* under any circumstances ride with bindings that are loose, can come loose or are otherwise less than totally 100% locked in. That's a good way to put an early end to your walking career.

When your bindings are properly engaged, you will be able to see the intec pins almost totally flush with the receiver holes, peering over your bindings from above. If you can't they're not in all the way and you should pull out now and step in again (unless you fancy pulling out while flying down the mountain, which you don't).

Welcome to BOL!

[hockey2]

Thanks for the responses.

TD1's - standard

As for the carve itself. My toe side edge would carve well, but the heel side would slide, just like a softbooter.

[jtslalom]

hockey2,
What mountain do you ride on? Where ever it is try to find other guys that ride hrad decks and boots and go ride with them. You're best off riding with others that can really carve so that you can see what they are doing and maybe have them watch you and give you some advice. As far as popping out of your bindings, as willwhit said, NEVER ride like that. You can easily mess your self up bad on the simplest of turns if you pop out. As far as a general comment on riding hard vs. soft, stay as low as you can get. Really bend your knees. One major issue that I see with people who are new to hard riding who come from a soft riding background is that they tend to stand up more when riding hard. Concentrate on bending your knees and getting your rear end down over the board.

Good Luck

[vapor]

I dont have td's myself but with the front bail on the cateks they have a bolt that adjusts how far down the clip come down to the boot.When properly set up and clipping in it will pass a point where it feels like it cams and puts pressure on the boot. that can be done by adjusting the bolt in so the clip can go closer to the boot.
For riding tips there are many more better than i but if you can find someone here who can critque your technique that will go a long way. In fact i wouldn't mind a few pointers myself.

[hockey2]

Also, I have my front foot at 56 degrees and my rear at 55. I have size 12 feet so this is as low as I could go without my toes dragging.

Does this sound about right?

[ursle]

1. How the hell do you get into the bindings?? Front or rear foot first? I just couldn't seem to get any leverage to clip into the bindings. It took me longer to get into the bindings than it did to go down the slope. If I had to get into the binding on any sort of incline, forget it, the board just kept taking off.

2. Speaking of bindings, I had to loosen the rear foot so I could clamp it down on the boot, next thing you know it keeps popping free on the hill. I managed to link some good carves, but the bindings had me tweaked out because I kept waiting for them to pop.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I hope to get back out on Sunday after I get some pointers.


No offense, but I rather enjoy the mental picture of your quandry

1 front foot first, most of us lean the rear foot boot forward quite a bit and set the front foot boot more upright, if both your boots are upright, not leaned forward at all, getting into your bindings would be fun to watch, but painful to do, lean that rear boot forward

2 no grey area where bindings are concerned, crank-em

[willywhit]

Also, I have my front foot at 56 degrees and my rear at 55. I have size 12 feet so this is as low as I could go without my toes dragging.

Does this sound about right?
depends on the width of the board but generally just make sure you're not stuffing your toes when you go deep toeside.
TD1s do need to be really cranked down, I backed off my rear foot a tad but still run a little "leash" off the toe bail and under the boot bail just in case.
make sure you keep checking your allen bolts as they can vibrate on cold hard snow. crank it all down and go work on getting low on your heelside.
Have fun :cool: be smart, be safe :biggthump tear it up !

[Jim]

Hockey2,

Carving with other carvers will answer most of your questions. It won't make you a better carver because that takes mega-strong legs and time on the slopes, but you will have quite a few mysteries solved. My mentor spent at least five years figuring things out that it I took me two years riding with carvers.

You may also take a lesson or two which helps big time.

[hockey2]

Yeah, but in all my years of riding I've seen a handful of hardbooters. I ride mainly at Whiteface. Anyone else ride there??

[hockey2]

If you do ride at Whiteface I'll gladly buy you beer, dinner, whatever, if you're willing to show me the ropes.

[philw]

1. How the hell do you get into the bindings?
Front foot first. Practice at home on the carpet. No really. You have to get the length of the bindngs just right with Intecs or they won't click in.

2. Coming out of bindings
Can't happen. You have them set up incorrectly. Post here and ask (!) or re-read the instructions, or take them back to the shop for instruction. They should be rock solid.

3. I did "the norm", but I still skidded a lot too. Any sugestions?
Practice. Probably it will take a little while, but you'll get it. You will likely want to tweak your stance (the advice here about front boot upright, back angled is good).

4. It was 1 degree today and the snow was nice and firm which I thought would be ideal. Can it be too hard (wasn't icy) or is it just that I suck?
For day one, anybody would suck. Carving a board is the pinnacle of the sport - something only the dedicated is going to get to. For sure some people would rip on day one, but not with a crappy binding setup and not generally.

[Donek]

The older I get the harder it is to get into bail bindings. Bending down and lifting the bail takes a lot of flexibility.

The closer my feet are to the same angle, the harder it is for me to buckle the bail. At this stage of the game, it's unlikely you're going to be really railing those turns. Bring your angles down some, particularly on the back foot. It will make binding entry easier and be a bit more familiar to your old style. When you start dragging your toes, then bring your angles up.

Examine your stance width as well. You should be narrower than your freeride stance. I typically recommend a shoulder width. I'm actually a bit narrower these days. A narrower stance will enable you to apply more pressure to the middle of the board and bend it more. Don't be afraid to experiment.

Above all, you should be in a comfortable and natural position on the board. This will facilitate binding entry and make it possible to ride with less fatigue and fewer injuries.

[hockey2]

Here are a couple of pics of my bindings. Does everything look OK?

[hockey2]

Let me make those bigger

[hockey2]

Last time. I just want to make sure it's clear enough so you guys can see if the bount is locked in correctly.

[Donek]

Adjustment screws on bails are missing.

[queequeg]

Let me make those bigger

It would appear that you are missing two screws, one on each toe bail. these screws maintain pressure on the top of the toe (not the toe-ledge). I'm not too familiar with bombers, but I would imagine those are there for a purpose. You may be able to order them from Bomber.

Megaflexes! My first hardboots were a pair of Burton Megaflexes just like that! Circa 1993 no?

[willywhit]

make sure you've got the urethane bumpers under the heels and toes. I can't see the front one in the boot pic.
check yoself before yo wreck yoself

[hockey2]

So would these missing screws be the reason the bails kept popping?? I did just order a bunch of replacement screws from Bomber so I should be all set.

The bumpers are on, just can't tell from the pic.

[fin]

Hockey2,

Stop! Don't go out until this addressed.

The one photo gives it all away. On that side shot you can see the TD1 toe clip does not have the set-screw. That in fine in itself, you can ride the binding like that no problem. What is a MAJOR issue is that the toe clip is NOT clamping down all the way onto the boot. You can see this by the fact the toe clip is not all the way down onto the boot. It appears to be hovering over the boot. Bad is SO many ways. Think of it as a door that is not shut all the way, it will pop open at any time.

What I suspect is happening is those very old boots have a wide toe area and the sides of the binding are rubbing on the rubber sole of the boot. This keeps the toe bail and clip from actually clamping down. When you clamp them down does it make a sharp and crisp "snap" or kind of just stop and feel mushy? I bet it does not snap down.

You need to address this before you go out again. The easiest way would be to look and see where the rubber sole of the boot interferes with the toe bail, then sand that rubber off until you get a nice firm snap out of the clip and the clip sits down ON the boot. Modern day snowboard boots have relatively narrow toe profiles but some of the older boots did not.

Call me at 1-800-277-2037 if you have any other questions on this. Or e-mail me (below). But don't go out until this is fixed.

Fear of god aside....Welcome! We'll get you going :biggthump

[hockey2]

Hockey2,

Stop! Don't go out until this addressed.

The one photo gives it all away. On that side shot you can see the TD1 toe clip does not have the set-screw. That in fine in itself, you can ride the binding like that no problem. What is a MAJOR issue is that the toe clip is NOT clamping down all the way onto the boot. You can see this by the fact the toe clip is not all the way down onto the boot. It appears to be hovering over the boot. Bad is SO many ways. Think of it as a door that is not shut all the way, it will pop open at any time.

What I suspect is happening is those very old boots have a wide toe area and the sides of the binding are rubbing on the rubber sole of the boot. This keeps the toe bail and clip from actually clamping down. When you clamp them down does it make a sharp and crisp "snap" or kind of just stop and feel mushy? I bet it does not snap down.

You need to address this before you go out again. The easiest way would be to look and see where the rubber sole of the boot interferes with the toe bail, then sand that rubber off until you get a nice firm snap out of the clip and the clip sits down ON the boot. Modern day snowboard boots have relatively narrow toe profiles but some of the older boots did not.

Call me at 1-800-277-2037 if you have any other questions on this. Or e-mail me (below). But don't go out until this is fixed.

Fear of god aside....Welcome! We'll get you going :biggthump

You're 100% right. It does not "snap" down, it feels very mushy and hovers above the boot.
Exactly what part of the boot should should I sand off?

[fin]

hockey2,

Have not done ones of these in years, but generally you ONLY want to sand down the rubber sole area of the boot and not the actual hard plastic of the shell. The shell itself is somewhat thin and you could sand through it before you know it. Is the interference with the toe bail down near the rubber sole of the boot?

[Jack Michaud]

Am I nuts or is that bail FUBAR'd? Looks like a crobar special. The bend in the bail wire looks straightened and the toe lever has no over-center cam effect.

If that's not the case and the camera is playing tricks on me, I think Fin is right (duh, he would be) - the boot looks too wide in the toe. It appears to be interfering/colliding with the bail wire.

Those are ancient, obsolete, worn out boots. I think you should return them to whoever you got them from and demand a refund.

[hockey2]

No, both bindings appear to be symmetrical, neither one appears to be bent.

As for the boots, I bought them off of EBAY. Where do you guys get your boots from?

[queequeg]

As for the boots, I bought them off of EBAY. Where do you guys get your boots from?

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=3
http://www.bomberonline.com/store/boots/

[hockey2]

Hockey2,

Stop! Don't go out until this addressed.

The one photo gives it all away. On that side shot you can see the TD1 toe clip does not have the set-screw. That in fine in itself, you can ride the binding like that no problem. What is a MAJOR issue is that the toe clip is NOT clamping down all the way onto the boot. You can see this by the fact the toe clip is not all the way down onto the boot. It appears to be hovering over the boot. Bad is SO many ways. Think of it as a door that is not shut all the way, it will pop open at any time.

What I suspect is happening is those very old boots have a wide toe area and the sides of the binding are rubbing on the rubber sole of the boot. This keeps the toe bail and clip from actually clamping down. When you clamp them down does it make a sharp and crisp "snap" or kind of just stop and feel mushy? I bet it does not snap down.

You need to address this before you go out again. The easiest way would be to look and see where the rubber sole of the boot interferes with the toe bail, then sand that rubber off until you get a nice firm snap out of the clip and the clip sits down ON the boot. Modern day snowboard boots have relatively narrow toe profiles but some of the older boots did not.

Call me at 1-800-277-2037 if you have any other questions on this. Or e-mail me (below). But don't go out until this is fixed.

Fear of god aside....Welcome! We'll get you going :biggthump
Fin
So when you say sand down the runner sole, do you mean the bottom of the boot that gives you traction to walk on?

[scotts.Scheinman]

1. How the hell do you get into the bindings?
Front foot first. Practice at home on the carpet. No really. You have to get the length of the bindngs just right with Intecs or they won't click in.

2. Coming out of bindings
Can't happen. You have them set up incorrectly. Post here and ask (!) or re-read the instructions, or take them back to the shop for instruction. They should be rock solid.

3. I did "the norm", but I still skidded a lot too. Any sugestions?
Practice. Probably it will take a little while, but you'll get it. You will likely want to tweak your stance (the advice here about front boot upright, back angled is good).

4. It was 1 degree today and the snow was nice and firm which I thought would be ideal. Can it be too hard (wasn't icy) or is it just that I suck?
For day one, anybody would suck. Carving a board is the pinnacle of the sport - something only the dedicated is going to get to. For sure some people would rip on day one, but not with a crappy binding setup and not generally.
bowdown

[hockey2]

So I've been messing with my boots and bindings for over an hour now and I just can't get it to "snap" onto the boot. It's folds over but it's still mushy. Are these boots just not going to fit with these bindings??

I purchased them on EBAY and the guy assured me they would fit with TD1's.

[corey_dyck]

Check for clearance between the front bail and the boot. You should be able to pass at least a business card between them along the full length of the bail to the shoulder bolts when fully clamped up. That's what Fin was getting at. :) If there's contact, the bail may not be allowed to move enough to get a safe connection.

Another option is that the toe clip may not be going over center before the top portion hits the boot. I found with my old Burton boots that I had to have the screws (that you are missing) all the way out to ensure that it went over center.

If you draw a line from the shoulder bolts to the point where the bail passes through the center of the toe clip, the point where it contacts the boot MUST be forward (away from the heel) of that line. That's what 'over center' means. Not over center = going to release when bumped.

If it's not over center, I don't know what options there are other than bending the toe clip so that the L-shape is more open. This is a last resort!
Now: L
After bending: L

[corey_dyck]

A picture is worth a thousand words, right?

http://i6.tinypic.com/7wym44j.jpg
In this quick sketch the blue/green point is the contact point between the toe clip and the boot. It absolutely has to be to the left of the red line as shown in that picture. But, you have to view the boot straight from the side, not slightly from the rear as this picture is.

Good luck!

[hockey2]

A picture is worth a thousand words, right?

http://i6.tinypic.com/7wym44j.jpg
In this quick sketch the blue/green point is the contact point between the toe clip and the boot. It absolutely has to be to the left of the red line as shown in that picture. But, you have to view the boot straight from the side, not slightly from the rear as this picture is.

Good luck!

Man, you guys sure are helpful. Unfortunately it looks like I'm screwed. I was checking out pics of new boots and it looks like mine are too old school. I think they're too wide.

Now I'm bummed...

[Derf]

Maybe longer shoulder bolts like the guys who ride AT boots in TDs?

[corey_dyck]

Man, you guys sure are helpful. Unfortunately it looks like I'm screwed. I was checking out pics of new boots and it looks like mine are too old school. I think they're too wide.
Don't give up yet! There were (and still are!) lots of people riding Burton boots in TD1s. As Derf mentioned, there are wider shoulder bolts and bails available from Bomber for AT boots. But first: where are the bails contacting the boot?

Of course, the more money you spend on fixing this problem the less you have to buy more modern boots... Been there, done that, ended up with some NOS Deeluxe 413s and never looked back.

[Paulk]

Man, you guys sure are helpful. Unfortunately it looks like I'm screwed. I was checking out pics of new boots and it looks like mine are too old school. I think they're too wide.

Now I'm bummed...


I tried to mock up your setup in my basement today....I have the same boots(my first pair, never got rid of them) and an extra pair of TD1's.
The boots will not fit the stock TD1's. The toe box is too large. It appears that any grinding would weaken the boot.

The inexpensive way out is to find a pair of Burton race plates.. But if you can swing it, new boots w/ thermofit liners will make your feet very happy.
Good luck!

[hockey2]

Thanks for taking the time to check that out Paul. I'm glad to know I'm not going crazy. I kept thinking that there is no way in hell that these fit.

Luckily about 1/2 hour after my WTB post I scored a pair of AF700 boots. I should have them today. Can't wait to hit the slopes tomorrow.

[b0ardski]

god I love a happy ending:1luvu:

[Pow]

Yeah, but in all my years of riding I've seen a handful of hardbooters. I ride mainly at Whiteface. Anyone else ride there??

I'll be up at whiteface next wednesday, but I'll be riding all the greens because im taking my girlfriend and her friend. I won't be able to hang with you much, and i have limited experience anyway, but i might be able to take a few runs if youre interested. Where else do you ride? there's usually a carver or two over at Jiminy Peak, and a few of us go to Gore every once in a while. One of the best carvers i know practically lives at Royal Mountain, which is in the lower Adirondacks, near Caroga Lake. A lot of carvers also go to Windham in the Catskills (that might be too far away for you though).

[queequeg]

uckily about 1/2 hour after my WTB post I scored a pair of AF700 boots.

Score! Happy trails!!

[hockey2]

Just got the AF 700's, put them in the bindings and got a crisp "snap" out of them when I locked them on to the boot. Now it makes perfect sense. The toe box of the Burton boots was too wide for the bails of the TD1's. These fit in perfectly.

Gore and Whiteface are about the only two places I ride, but I have a friend who goes to Royal so maybe I can hook up with your friend for a few pointers. Let him know there's a newbie hardbooter who will gladly supply him with all the beers he wants if he shows me the ropes.

[fin]

Right on! Glad to hear it worked out. Those 700's area great boot, you'll be very happy. Just make sure you have the set-screw on the toe clip in far enough to give you a "gap" to get under it and open the clip. No more then that.

Let us know how it goes.

[hockey2]

Actually the set screws are missing. Is it OK if I ride without them? What is their purpose anyways? Isn't the whole idea to have the binding clamped down on the boot?