Carving on steeper terrain

[BadBrad]

I've been frustrated with learning to carve on steeper terrain. I did a search and found this thread where someone had a similar problem, and he was even on the same trails.
http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=14917&page=1

I also read the tech article about carving the steeps:
http://www.bomberonline.com//articles/carving_the_steeps.cfm

I was on the beginner/intermediate run and making some great carves. Nice S-shaped lines in the snow, completing my turns, and when I saw my shadow my form looked like it was pretty good.

Then I went to the intermediate slope and went from carving hero to zero. I'd make a couple of turns, then accelerate so fast that I'd have to skid to get my speed under control. In analyzing myself, I figured that I need to do the following:
1. Get the board higher on edge with hips closer to the snow to make tighter turns and control speed.
2. Finish my turns so that I'm making complete 180* arcs.

But these are much easier said than done. At higher speeds I should be able to flex the board more and make tighter turns, but the opposite was happening. The faster I went the bigger my arcs got. If I finished the turn I ran out of room to carve the next turn without throwing the board around. I'd get the board on edge and for some reason I was unable to tighten up the carve when going faster. I don't know if this was due to lack of leg strength or just fear or what. Even on the gentler slope, when I got going fast my arcs got a lot bigger.

I tried lots of things. One thing I did was to reach across the board. On heelside I'd reach both hands across the heelside of the board, and on toeside I'd reach the forward hand to the outside of the front boot. This helped a little, but not a great deal. Another thing I tried was getting as low as possible, so that my thighs were actually pressing into my body. Again, this helped a little, but I pretty much ride like that anyway when I'm doing deep carves. Another thing I tried was flexing my ankles to put the board higher on edge. This helped more than anything else, but still wasn't enough.

So, what drills can I do to help me make tight turns at faster speeds and on steeper terrain?

In case it matters, the setup was a Prior 4WD 164, 9m scr, binding angles 54f/51r, 19.3" stance width, rear binding with a 7* cant/lift, front with just a tiny bit of toe lift.

[yyzcanuck]

Read the tech article here (http://www.bomberonline.com//articles/cross_over.cfm).
There's more to it than just the 'cross' techniques but without these you will have a difficult time progressing. Being able to prepare early (read that as having the downhill edge of board set while still crossing the fall line) for the next turn ensures you have time to complete the turn.

Oh yeah, there's one other thing too... read about it here (http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/sports/story.html?id=dcb75dc7-7831-45fd-a278-b936a6741ac5). This helped most for me.

Edit: I found this old stick-man diagram that I used years ago to illustrate the down hill edge set early. Notice the stick-man's body is falling down the hill in the 'begin turn' stage.

[Jack Michaud]

ErikJ breakin' the law....

http://home.maine.rr.com/jjtd/ECES2006/images/060308_1549.jpg

[BadBrad]

I understand what you are saying about quickly transitioning to the other edge, and I was trying to do that. The big problem was still that the radius of the turn got bigger at higher speeds. At some point the radius gets so big that you just have no room left -- you are at the edge of the run when you finish a turn, so even if you quickly cross to the other edge you are into the woods.

[trailertrash]

You may need to pressure the nose a little more to bend the board and get it to carver a tighter turn.

[Steve Dold]

Brad, can you post any video? It sounds like you're going through the same thing I did, but never completely solved.

[BadBrad]

Sorry, no video. I went to the ski area alone, so there was nobody to take any video of me.

I'll have to try the pressuring the nose more. I think I did try that once and felt like I was going to hook.

[Pow]

I'm working my way through this as well, ive managed a few turns and when i did get it right i was driving forward to initiate,starting "upside down" (something really hard to get used to, versus initiating sideways) and holding the tight arc all the way around until i was past perpendicular to the fall line again.

[willywhit]

it's really hard , esp on fairly steep pitches.
Gilmour is a master on a shorty madd at speed. Amazing to watch. :eek:
PaulK has madd skills on steep stuff.
hard to find steep stuff that's groomed, usually it's all bumped up

[yyzcanuck]

Jack, excellent example of what I was referring too.

BadBrad, I think I didn't tell you enough. If you can complete the turn by running back up the fall line, you will start to feel a HUGE loss of speed and this brings you back into your comfort zone. Then, if you can get through the transition fast enough, you simply don't run out of room.

[Pow]

If you can complete the turn by running back up the fall line, you will start to feel a HUGE loss of speed

and a huge loss of leg strength! fatigue sets in quickly on the steeps, or maybe im still just doing it wrong:o

[willywhit]

Jack, excellent example of what I was referring too.

BadBrad, I think I didn't tell you enough. If you can complete the turn by running back up the fall line, you will start to feel a HUGE loss of speed and this brings you back into your comfort zone. Then, if you can get through the transition fast enough, you simply don't run out of room.
exactly.
If you've ever ridden a carveboard on a steep hill you have really concentrate on controlling your speed.A regular skateboard is close to the feeling too.Try a wider hill that isn't crazy steep. Big wide turns and concentrate on finishing the turn heading up the hill a bit to scrub speed, sounds weird but it's really fun to push the envelope a bit, get out of your comfort zone.Even break the edge loose a little to get used to it.Prob bad advice here. I have no idea what I'm talking about....but it works for me. :rolleyes:
we need a video here to demonstrate the technique
Jacks pic is a good start
I think it's easier to learn it with lower angles, too. Not cranked up to 55 degrees on an 18 cm wide board. :nono: at first,anyway :cool:

[MUD]

BadBrad, I think I didn't tell you enough. If you can complete the turn by running back up the fall line, you will start to feel a HUGE loss of speed and this brings you back into your comfort zone. Then, if you can get through the transition fast enough, you simply don't run out of room.

Ok, I will give this my best..... I am not good at verbalizing this.

When you carve back "up" the hill, it not only scrubs speed quite fast (the steeper the faster), it allows you to begin that early transition "earlier" with less of that "I am falling off the hill feeling" because your board is facing up hill somewhat. You will see what I mean when you try it. This all happens very quickly when it is really steep.

[yyzcanuck]

Pow, you're not doing it wrong, of course it takes leg strength but again, there's more to it.
In my experience, holding a long, high speed arc takes more out of me than riding steeps. I attribute this to the forces necessary to hold that long turn. On steeper terrain my legs are being extended and retracted each turn, giving them time to relax.

MUD, agreed. And that goes back to my 'grow some balls' link. I had a difficult time getting past the 'I'm falling' feeling. Once I did, it all came together nicely... most of the time, or some of the time, or occasionally!

[pebu]

I have the problem too. I think what it comes down to is having the balls to drive the board. On the moderate greens to easy blues it's easy to drive, cause what do you have to lose? If (and that's a big "if") you end up with some speed it's very easy to bail. But when you get on a steeper hill it's harder to bail, so you end up scared to drive it and the board ends up driving you. You just gotta learn to trust yourself and trust your equipment.

[Bobby Buggs]

Funny part of this, you have trained yourself to NEVER engage the down hill edge as you learned early on what a face plant was :freak3:
But in a true carve using the down hill edge is a must and may be one of the coolest feelings you can get on the board.

[rwmaron]

Brad;
I'm working my way through this as well. Two thoughts:
- my success is partly dependent on slope conditions, i.e., recent groom vs. end of the day hard-pack; and
- when I'm pressuring the nose enough, both shins are fully engaged against the front of my boots.

Oddly enough, I manage this process better on my heelside (probably because I've worked on that side so much).

It's frustrating that I can't be more consistent with this, but it's so sweet when I do pull it off!!

Hang in there - you'll get it.

[willywhit]

And that goes back to my 'grow some balls' link. I had a difficult time getting past the 'I'm falling' feeling. Once I did, it all came together nicely... most of the time, or some of the time, or occasionally!
which link is that ?
'grow some balls' ?
I like that :biggthump
sorry if it's an obvious link and I missed it, I wanna read that.
don't be afraid to trust the centrifugal force, with enough momentum and aggro attitude it's amazing how you can mess with gravity :eplus2: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/243856/gravity_sucks/

and always remember....

F1+ F2 = – (mv2/r) ru

[b0ardski]

A good mental trick I use to get that early transition is to always be thinking of your next turn; If you think too much about how you're finishing the turn that your in, especially at speed, it's too late to make the "early" transition. Let your body finish the job while you head leads the way:biggthump

[yyzcanuck]

Post #2 in this thread... second word 'here'. Or read about the sex change 'here (http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/sports/story.html?id=dcb75dc7-7831-45fd-a278-b936a6741ac5)'.

[MUD]

I have been thinking about this.
The other thing is to reduce the time between carves.....
Make sure you are not standing up too much between carves (this is ralative). Stay low and transition quickly, it will help keep the speed down.
To do this you really NEED to look ahead, get caught too low and you will not have enough compression to make it over a bump, this sucks!

[yyzcanuck]

MUD, that's what the tech article about the different 'cross' techniques is about... reduction of time spent changing edges. Fast good, slow bad!

[willywhit]

Post #2 in this thread... second word 'here'. Or read about the sex change 'here (http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/sports/story.html?id=dcb75dc7-7831-45fd-a278-b936a6741ac5)'.


thanks alot ! :biggthump

[MUD]

MUD, that's what the tech article about the different 'cross' techniques is about... reduction of time spent changing edges. Fast good, slow bad!

Sure...... Steel my thunder!;)

I suppose I could read them, then I wouldn't be repeating them.

[yyzcanuck]

MUD: There is nothing more satisfying than pointing out the shortcomings of others! What is 'steel thunder"?
You're welcome.

[willywhit]

don't get stuck in tha .....MUD

GO FAST !

Your name is MUD
Not to be confused with bill or jack or pete or dennis
Your name is mud and its always been
cause you're the most railing sons-a-bitch I've ever seen

but call me alowishus devadander abercrombie
Thats long for mud so Ive been told

We had our words, a common spat
So I kissed him upside the cranium with an aluminum baseball bat
the name is MUD

:biggthump

[MUD]

What is 'steel thunder"?


Bad speling.

[MUD]

don't get stuck in tha .....MUD

GO FAST !

Your name is MUD
Not to be confused with bill or jack or pete or dennis
Your name is mud and its always been
cause you're the most railing sons-a-bitch I've ever seen

but call me alowishus devadander abercrombie
Thats long for mud so Ive been told

We had our words, a common spat
So I kissed him upside the cranium with an aluminum baseball bat
the name is MUD

:biggthump

Mmmmmmm...... Primus rocks!!!!:biggthump

[Bobby Buggs]

MUD: There is nothing more satisfying than pointing out the shortcomings of others!
And I thought you were all that, only to find out your just a Hater :nono:

[MUD]

And I thought you were all that, only to find out your just a Hater :nono:

See what happens when you put a person on a pedastal? They just knock it down......:ices_ange

[yyzcanuck]

I prefer to think of it as 'tipping over' the pedastel. Knocking it down just sounds so... I don't know... brutal!

[queequeg]

BadBrad - I am working on this too, I spent thursday practicing this at Hunter Mtn--I think I saw the carvefather there, but didn't manage to catch up with him. My runs ranged from moderately successful (get down in style, if not in total confidence) to utter failure (I took a lot of small low-speed falls, and one huge wreck).

It didn't help that the run I was practicing on was bumpy as hell, but I found that as long as I was low enough I could absorb the little bumps and that I just had to try and carve around the big ones.

I didn't have much problem starting my turns out with the downhill edge while traversing across the slope - at least not early on in the run it - got a little scarier to do that as I added speed.

I think most of my problems fall under the "balls" category, particularly with my bum knee (on my leading leg). Once I got picking up speed I was not as good about getting my downhill edge engaged before I started my descent through the turn, which of course, contributed to even greater speed. So my runs would start out really strong, with linked turns that all ended with me moving slightly uphill and transitioning into the downhill edge but as I gained speed my turns lost their s-shape and the speed took over, with me being afraid to push them back into a tighter radius.

I think my biggest problems with this are:

- I tend to start looking down at the fall line at the most critical time - when I need to bleed speed and go uphill some. Once I start looking down the fall line everything seems to fall apart. Definitely a balls-related problem.

- I'm probably not pressuring the nose enough throughout my turns. (thanks trailertrash).

I think I just need more days on the snow. Right now I'm riding an FC II 175 with an 11.75 SCR. Some of the runs at hunter are pretty narrow, so next time I go, I may bring my Ride Kildy but I'm trying to stick to one board for now while I get back up on my feet.

[Bobby Buggs]

Queen, Im sure you did see the Carvefather there. He seems to live there lately.
Catch up with him and when you do tell him you want to be Jaws. I know that sounds weird but its what he called me when I first started riding alpine in 2002. It stood for Just Add Water Snowboarder :D
See me being a multi sport guy I expected to be good at carving my first season and was Very hard on my self. He would say, your way too hard on your self, you think you can just add water and be good at this?? and I would say, well yeah I expect to be good.
I have to thank him and TonyZ for my relative quick progression.
OK, Where am I going with this??? He is a great teacher and loves to see people progress as a result of his instruction.
So get with him and use Code word JAWS, expect some major break throughs either that day or the next but be ready to work Hard :eplus2:
Maybe we can plan a small session at Jimminy during the week so we can have a trail or 2 just to us and you can really focus on some things.
With a little instruction, determination and hard work you will get there.

[4000]

Play follow the leader with the fastest guy on the mountain. Believe me, you'll find a way to carve, control, and dice down that mountain. Long ago, this meant following around some guy on GS skis. Now there are plenty of fast carvers all over the World.

Also. . . pick up some speed on the greens. If you can lay out nice carves on green trails, you've got the technique. Now try the same without "speed loss". Point it down hill more and drive off of your turns and keep pushing down hill. Stay far away from others.

[queequeg]

Also. . . pick up some speed on the greens. If you can lay out nice carves on green trails, you've got the technique.

I can rail on the greens and easier blues - I just start to lose it when things get steeper. I think I just begin to lose my nerve (and my knee begins to hurt).


Queen, Im sure you did see the Carvefather there. ... I expected to be good at carving my first season and was Very hard on my self. He would say, your way too hard on your self, you think you can just add water and be good at this?? and I would say, well yeah I expect to be good. ... He is a great teacher and loves to see people progress as a result of his instruction.

Queen? Who's a queen?? I'm a bald maritime harpoonist covered from head to toe in tattoo.

Ok I'm definitely going to look up the carvefather him up next time I am there. I don't mind hard work (or getting worked hard, as it may be). The ski-bus takes frequent trips to hunter, so I will try to grab him next time I'm there. ... Its frustrating, 2.2 - 3 years off the mountain, and it feels like I'm starting all over again (I actually started when I was eleven, and started riding plates when I was about 18. I'm 32 now but this is my first (real) season in 2/3 years, with the exception of two days last year). So I want to be as good as I was when I stopped riding, but it's been awhile and while I can still rail some great turns, putting it all together and keeping it all together is another thing. So yeah ... I don't think you can get more JAWS-mentality than me right now. I saw his board in the lodge, a short blue AM board (F2?) with TD2's and saw him riding down a few times, he looked super solid and clean. I'll carry some post-its and write my cell on them next time so I can stick them on any carving decks I see.

[4000]

. . . You may just be poking around up and over "optimal speed". Regardless of whether you're driving a tricycle, moutain bike, 1300 cc Harley or a pogo stick, every vehicle seems to have "optimal speed" for every set of conditions. I know everybody likes to talk about teary eyes and playing blowfish with your mouth going mach 10 in total control but once you go over "opitmal" speed in any vehicle, control is difficult to maintain. When it's steep and FAST, I don't think anybody has as much precision in their turns as when they do in predictable wide blue trails. Vision also plays a big role . . going fast and steep, little changes in your fall line can make a big difference. All things being the same, the shorter your board, the more you have to stay on top and adjust to changes in terrain. The longer the board, the more you can sit back and just charge over little variations. I don't know . . .it's just a thought.

[Bobby Buggs]

Being able to do it on the green and blue is a great step but the steeps will amplify the flaws in your technique. You think you got it together on that nice wide blue then it all comes apart on the narrow steep. I totally know what you mean.
Carvefather aka Ron rides a Nidecker Proto with Bombers. He always has his cell because he cant stop talking, so leave him a post-it, he will call you.

[carver]

Ok guys, Heres the deal from one of the best who passed away this last summer. He taught himself in Sun Valley. Can you say steep? (Exibition) One of the most demanding mountains in the US. He got me on alpine on Baldy and told me not to surf. He said that carving is for the groomers that a skier would be bored to death with. I have banged all the bumps I need to see for the rest of my life. Making wide turns on the blue and blue/black runs is just fine for the duration! I'm old and plan on doing this for many more years. Can you say Buttermilk!!!

[Paulk]

Play follow the leader with the fastest guy on the mountain. Believe me, you'll find a way to carve, control, and dice down that mountain. Long ago, this meant following around some guy on GS skis. Now there are plenty of fast carvers all over the World.
This is a reckless way to learn.....I don't want to be the guy you hit, because you were riding "in over your head".


Also. . . pick up some speed on the greens. If you can lay out nice carves on green trails, you've got the technique. Now try the same without "speed loss". Point it down hill more and drive off of your turns and keep pushing down hill. Stay far away from others.
I love the greens for learning, and so does everyone else. It's not the place to be pointing it down the hill. May I suggest instead, find an intermediate trail and try to follow a slow rider or skier, but concentrate on not going past them by making full carving turns. It will improve your patience, and your control, something that will benefit you greatly on steeper terrain. After all that was the original intent of this thread, right?


You may just be poking around up and over "optimal speed".
I like this opinion much better...much closer to the problem at hand:)

I really wish I was riding instead of sitting at work all weekend.

[David Glynn]

As you get on steeper terrain every time that board hits the fall line you are going to accelerate at a faster rate and the turns will get longer but being on a 164 you should be able to get it around without running out of room. You are right about needing higher edge angles etc. What I find to be very helpfull on the steeps is trying to bring the turn up hill a little and having some very aggressive but smooth transitions allowing the board to get out away from you as far as possible with a lot of extension and letting it carve back under you as it has little pressure on it and then loading it up as it finds the fall line and looking well into the turn as the board comes under and then up the hill slightly. And then repeat. It's cool how committed you have to be as the board will just come under you just before your body hits the snow holding you up but laid way out.
Another thing that can be of help to me is to squeeze my knees together to decamber the board more and tighten up the turn. But that comment may start a controversy. Steeps are way fun!!
Telluride has some incredible steeps but unfortunately the grooming can be pretty poor.But when they get it right.... oh my God.

[Silver Bullet]

The run in this image is ranges from 35 to 50 degrees. Carving it definitely taxes the legs. What this photo demonstrates is that you using a push pull motion with your legs, you can bleed speed at the first third of the turn so that the forces are not so extreme when your body swings around. By the time your board is parallel to the fall line, begin to pull your knees in.

Anyhow, this photo starts to show what David spoke of in the previous post.

[Pow]

I say crank it up in the transition!! if you dont, be prepared to drift, slide, and wash out. The steeper the run is, the higher you need to crank the board durring the edge switch. ohh and make sure you point uphill too! and bring some pain relievers and a girl who doesnt mind massaging your sore thighs;)

[David Glynn]

Silver Bullet
Nice pic! Oh yeah, thats what I'm talking about!
Where is the pic from? I think you would like it here in T-ride on a good day.

[Silver Bullet]

DG,

This was at Solitude in Utah last Spring. I hear southern Colorado has a lot of snow. I'll have to head down there sometime.

[carvedog]

Ok guys, Heres the deal from one of the best who passed away this last summer. He taught himself in Sun Valley. Can you say steep? (Exibition) One of the most demanding mountains in the US. He got me on alpine on Baldy and told me not to surf. He said that carving is for the groomers that a skier would be bored to death with. I have banged all the bumps I need to see for the rest of my life. Making wide turns on the blue and blue/black runs is just fine for the duration! I'm old and plan on doing this for many more years. Can you say Buttermilk!!!

Interesting you mention SV. When I see other carving hills they mostly look flat to me. When I carve hard on "green" runs I loose too much speed and it doesn't work so good. Give me some vert, give me some pitch and then let her rip. Upper Greyhawk and Greyhawk itself will tune you up real good if you want some steeps.

Exhibition is still my favorite bump run. Actually a perfect bump lap is Christmas Bowl down to the cat road to Seattle, then jump off to Inhibition, Cold Springs chair up to Roundhouse slope then drop into Exhibition down to Lookout chair. Wee ha that's what I'm talking about.

[newcarver]

T-ride does have some killer groomed steeps. You can run at milk run, coon dog, the plunge, and bushwacker. One of these is always groomed and will be great if there is adequate coverage. All of these are single blacks and are really steep and wide. I think milk is where they do most of their SL races at. Lots of good blue runs too. I think lookout would be a good run too. It is a steep double blue that is always groomed. It is not very wide at the top though. I hope to be able to carve on these runs one day, but I've had a ton of fun on them with my softboots before.

[David Glynn]

DG,

This was at Solitude in Utah last Spring. I hear southern Colorado has a lot of snow. I'll have to head down there sometime.
Silver bullet give me a call if you are coming this way, 970-728-3433

[David Glynn]

T-ride does have some killer groomed steeps. You can run at milk run, coon dog, the plunge, and bushwacker. One of these is always groomed and will be great if there is adequate coverage. All of these are single blacks and are really steep and wide. I think milk is where they do most of their SL races at. Lots of good blue runs too. I think lookout would be a good run too. It is a steep double blue that is always groomed. It is not very wide at the top though. I hope to be able to carve on these runs one day, but I've had a ton of fun on them with my softboots before.

The snowboard races have been moved to the nastar because of poor rider turnout. Milk run was, is .sick. We use to have GS there also and started from the top down through the milk farm and around the corner and down the next little pitch stopping in the finish area by the timing shed. Pretty good length. They have collegiate ski races there now. People love the venue.
We will have our first usasa races here on Jan.6th I believe. It's a Sunday and I think the gs and slalom will be the same day. The turn out last year was only less than 20 kids only one or two race boards. If you are trying to get to nationals it's an easier way in. The second race is one or two weeks later. I could confirm the dates if anyone was interested.
New carver lets try to hook up this year 970-728-3433

[newcarver]

David, I'll give you a call the next time I get on the hill. I don't have a season pass so won't be able to get out much this year. I could use someone to help me out with the hardboot stuff. New to this and don't know anybody to ride with. Thanks for the offer:biggthump

[willywhit]

bump for some sick steeper carving footage at Zinal
reaturing a coupla 67 yr old geezers ripping at 2:05
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DTGaQcuxfP0&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DTGaQcuxfP0&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[pebu]

I have a theory. I would propose that a good snowboarder can have fun on any hill, be it a light blue or double black. Personally I'm content staying on an easy blue for just about all day. (I'm not saying I'm all that good, blacks still scare the **** out of me.) But in my theory it extends to skiers as well. Most skiers I know get bored after a run or so of Cheers (easy wide blue). But a friend's kid is on the ski team and he'll put on his race tigers (sl) and we can follow each other down that dang run all day.

[pokkis]

bump for some sick steeper carving footage at Zinal
reaturing a coupla 67 yr old geezers ripping at 2:05
</EMBED>
Here is few shots of those Norwegian Gentleman Team riders:
http://www.flegmatic-carving.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/DSC_6078.JPG
http://www.flegmatic-carving.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/DSC_6141.JPG

[carvedog]

I have a theory. I would propose that a good snowboarder can have fun on any hill, be it a light blue or double black. Personally I'm content staying on an easy blue for just about all day. (I'm not saying I'm all that good, blacks still scare the **** out of me.) But in my theory it extends to skiers as well. Most skiers I know get bored after a run or so of Cheers (easy wide blue). But a friend's kid is on the ski team and he'll put on his race tigers (sl) and we can follow each other down that dang run all day.


For me to pull the G's, speed and full body grind that I want, I need the steepness to pull it off turn after turn. If too flat then two hard turns and no more speed. :mad:

[Dave ESPI]

I've been messing around with the down hill angle changes with edge transitions on sat am with Cail at Jiminy. I found I kept stuffing my nose, and my rear foot was dragging me through on the transitions in a skidded out carve that landed me firmly on my ass in a controled sliding stop rather than a complete carve.


There was a point on the hill where we would simply just run out of room, or momentum first, and would have to stand it back up and skid out a stop.

I did manage to get almost a few full 360's in on the heelside though. and on steeps. It is hilariously funny because there is no way to transition back to the toe side, so you end up doing a backspin and then putting the board back down as you slide around

Kinda like 1980's break-dancin' on a carver....

:lol:

[Steve Prokopiw]

For me the thrill of dropping into the fall line on a steep run on a short sidecut board and 'bending gravity' as I like to say,is distinctly different than the thrill of hauling ass on a long sidecut board on a shallower grade.Combining the steepness and speed of the two is probably as close I will ever come to other thrill sports such as base jumping or kite boarding.