Your experience when switching to hardboots.

[Phil]

I have seen a lot of opinions, but I thought that a poll would give me a better perspective.

There were probably more options that I could have listed, but try to stick with the ones that are there.

[pebu]

The only problem I had with soft boots was the boot-out. Saw some hardbooters and thought, hey, that's cool. So I cranked up my angles, which I did not like at all in softboots, but I kept my toes and heels out of the snow so I was happy... for about a day. Then I got hardboots, and sure, I went down quite a few times that first day, but hey, that's to be expected.

[Allee]

There is nothing in here for "I started in hardboots and got my a$$ handed to me, but I never looked bacK".

[Terryw]

For me it was just a natural progression. My first soft boot setup felt too sloppy to me. So I switched to some Burton Torque bindings with a third strap over the shin bone and felt better. But I still felt like I wasn't able to hold as good an edge as I would like. Then I saw a friend with hard boots on a snow board. Started on hard boots and never looked back!

I will admit though that I didn't relly make great gains until I hooked up with Bomber and the community here.

[b0ardski]

I saw my first plate binders in '88 when I was learning to ride in sorels w/skiboot liers. Trying to find gear that wasn't crap consummed my life. I rode every board the shop could get in and by '90 bought a new K2 TX 170. Best carving board I could get at the time. I modified strap binders to accept my Terminator tele's. Toe drag's a drag. In '92 i bought Nodica sbhard (AT boot w/lateral flex) and ignored the lace-up garbage they try to stuff down our throughts. Found new clickers & skylords new in for $100 in '02, tried'em 3 days and sold'em. Synopsis; What transition.:freak3:

[Thor VonRippington]

I've never ridden in a production soft boot. When I started riding the only boots available were Sorels and the like. Unhappy with pain and terrible performance, we harvested liners, tongues, and other parts from old ski boots to use in/on the sorels. By the time actual snowboard boots came along, our modified sorels had evolved into something way better than what was being produced. It was obvious we were emulating hard boots and then wa la... there they were. The transition was a happy time.

[carverchick]

Even though I've only been on a hardboot setup for one season, I found the transition for me was quite easy. Not sure why, perhaps it was because I felt more secure with boots that I "could feel". My softboots always felt loose.

I did have my heiney handed to me a few times on hardboots, but I looked at it as if I :biggthump was earning my merit badges :)

[b0ardski]

I have a large albiet ageing collection of body slam & brain stem plant merit badges. Some days the dues is steep.:smashfrea

[crucible]

There was no switching to hardboots for me- I've been on hardboots since day one- winter o' 1986....

[Allee]

I have a large albiet ageing collection of body slam & brain stem plant merit badges. Some days the dues is steep.:smashfrea
Brain stem plant - hee hee, I still get those regularly. I sometimes worry that I'm going to end up with a brain like Chris Benoit.

[Sinecure]

Where's the option for "I was wearing Sorels and the switch was a no-brainer"? Plus I got some AT boots cheap.

[jnshapiro]

I didn't mark the poll as I was a rank beginner on a single plank.

I'd been skiing for years and decided to try snowboarding. First day out was on a soft setup. I hated it! No where near the responsiveness that I had on skis with soft boots.

Found a shop with a demo hardboot setup. That was much better. Really enjoyed it. Ended up buying that demo board cheap as I was the only one to have ridden it. A Burton M6 (still have it).

So I never really spent much time in softboots.

[willywhit]

shin splints.....switched out the cheesy bladders for some Tecnica TNT bladders and it was all good until the emery surfs ripped out.
getting the PJ ripped off at sugarbush brought on the alpine addiction-1989

[k_t]

what are soft boots?

[Steve Prokopiw]

Similar to Thor's experience except having owned two pairs of production softies prior to giving up softies forever.My very first sorels had pawn shop skiboot liners with plastic reinforced tongues after which I also laced actual skiboot tounges into the sorels as well.The next softboots were Airwalk Extremes with the little velcro stiffening ribs and I hardly rode those boots before going back to Flexon Comps.
My last pair of softies were DCs with the pump bladders and Nidecker 900 bindings.Best performing and least painful setup I ever had but still not good enough ,especially considering that while carving between jumps during freestyle accredidation at Vail in 04 I ripped the sole off of the rear boot from the heel to the midfoot.I bought that setup just to get freestyle accred and when I offered to rent boots for the remainder of the weekend the examiner said he'd heard about me hardbooting in the park and said just to finish in hardboots. His evaluation form enclosed with the accred diploma stated I rode park better in hardboots and I should just stick with them if that was what I was comfortable with...A very rare and nonjudemental examiner with a great attitude.Needless to say I haven't been on softes since and I still love the park.Long live Damian!:)

[P06781]

Was riding a burton safari 165 with the 3 buckles & sorels w/ skiboot liners. Saw the burton movie w/ the PJ boys and started riding w/ burton 5 holes and my Rachlie flexons. I was skiing at the same time and lucked out with good ski boots that worked for snowboarding.... Rode on ski boots for many- many years ( the horrror!!!!)

Jim

[Phil]

A real man would have started the FS accred. in hardboots.;)

[Thor VonRippington]

what are soft boots?

Apres riding shoes.. you know... for the bar :biggthump

[Jack Michaud]

Went from Burton Flex 3-strappers to plates. Easy. Catek really needs to offer the FR2 in 3-strap trim. It is the gateway.

You forgot two options - never softbooted - easy/difficult.

[b0ardski]

Three strap burtons were the ticket to carve in 88:cool:

[Bobby Buggs]

Rode soft boots for my 1st season then went to a pair of Raichle snow boarders/121s in like 1995. I still rode free ride directional boards like the Rossi Levitation and the Damion Dagger but had No clue how to carve. Just liked the power and response of the hard boot. Did not commit to a carving board till 2001. Thanks to people like Tony Z, Eric Brammer, Alex J and Steph and of course the Carve Father crew I think I can carve a turn or 2, 7 years later :eek:

[Steve Prokopiw]

A real man would have started the FS accred. in hardboots.;)
I would have but, politically, I thought I would not be allowed to pass even though I was already training/examining in hardboots before getting out of the loop a few years prior.I took it as good hardboot karma that Greg, who was a kickass softboot carver, happened to be the lead examiner that weekend.

[Jrobb]

I rode softies for about 14 yrs. 11 of which were in some Morrows that made Sorrels look like Sazukas. I can't tell you how many times I jammed my ankle on toesides in those deathtraps. Got some Dialogues (Salomon) and loved the support, but like Alee, the toe drag would eat me for lunch. I'd been carving mostly in softies for a few years, not full laid out but definitely not skidding...unless I meant to.

After popping in and out on Bomber, I decided to go for it. Only have half of a sucky season on hb's but this year looks much better...I got a RT on the way:biggthump .

The transition was easy as far as the technique...so far. Getting used to the higher angles was the only stumbling point...that and towards the end of the season, I didn't get much good carving conditions. The first half was decent, but I was still in softies. I did have a blast laying some decent troughs on my 4807 in softies...till it tried to break.

J

[MUD]

Ok, I started (before they had production boots) in Sorels with ski boot liners. Then went to Burtons with the stiff liner when they came out for about a month (maybe more like a season) until the Burton Freestyles came out....... I rode those for oh, until the leather got dry rot. Then I got a pair of Northwaves.
The funniest thing is we used to ride our boots only laced half way up or so.

Oh yeah, somewhere in there I got my hard boots, about 6 or 7 years ago now.

In Minnesota you NEED to actually carve to be good at freestlye, otherwise you cannot hit anything with any decent control.

[GeoffV]

missing one more option
started on hardboots

[Phil]

There were probably more options that I could have listed, but try to stick with the ones that are there.

It is my poll and I will do what I want with it.:flamethro :o ;)


Sorry for those who do not fit my categories. I am doing "research". Those of you who started in hardboots are of no use to me.:eplus2: Thanks for joining the conversation, though.:biggthump

[Mark Brown]

My first ever lesson, in softboots of course, was from a grey on a tray in hardboots... Rode sloppy soffties with boot-outs. I ask the shop guy and he says "you'll never have a problem with boot overhang as you'll never get the board up on edge that far." Busted my ankle and needed more support in a boot. Stumbled upon BOL looking for a stiffer setup and the rest is nirvana ---- well, perhaps I could suck just a little less... I found the transition overall fairly easy and I actually started to carve turns --- what a concept!

[Rob Smith]

"Duck" sucked

[DiveBomber]

"a grey on a tray in hardboots" ??

hmm????

[Phil]

You know, a grey on a tray in hardboots!



http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=9081&stc=1

It's public domain, now, Mark!

[Bullwings]

Where the option for

"I was a straight liner hill bombing jackass and the transition was difficult."

[naj]

hell on the first day...the following days were smooth

[carvedog]

I voted for difficult. It just seemed hard to me get the gear, get it dialed and make it feel like I wasn't a completely wanker. Maybe I am.

Surprised to see how many started with sorels and ski boot liners. God those hurt even with good liners. Added elfgen tongues to relieve pressure on my arches. Went to Koflach Superpipes and kept the tongues and that was my setup pretty much until I went hard.

My first day on plates I used some mountaineering boots that were too soft so that the cuff around my calf would completely collapse. Very good for freestyle but did not work so well with the weird track style ( looked kind of like a bear trap ) plate binding, one of the scariest days I ever had on the mountain.

After trying a couple of other setups I went with Ride plates ( imagine a binding that was just like a Burton heel or toe plate aluminum block bolted straight to the board ), so it wasn't too adjustable but on that Mistral 167 Ecstasy I felt like a God of snow.
:biggthump

[trailertrash]

do you mean switching to hb's and carving? some people ride hardboots and don't carve.

[Phil]

Trailertrash,

That is actually what I mean, but for what I am trying to see, it doesn't really matter. I just want to know how people felt about the switch. A lot of people who aren't carving don't know that they are not carving - or don't care.

[willywhit]

http://www.snowboard-mag.com/node/5070
andy "dog" coghlan took various forms of payment for gear at the Boarding House in Burlington, VT- if you were there, you know what I mean. :rolleyes:
Just because you carve, doesn't mean you have style :cool:

[GeoffG]

I'm not really too sure how to answer that poll...like many others, when I started proper gear wasn't readily available--I used sorels with skiboot liners for several years, and found it very comfortable. Had an old 165 Gnu AntiGravity board, heavy and stiff, black with green graphics (this was mid/late 80s), mounted with Gnu bindings with rigid highbacks and a sort of tongue over the front of the boot. I actually made some hard bindings from an old Spademan plate that I drilled and mounted, and rode in skiboots...without any type of risers or cant, it was uncomfortable and I went back to the softboots.

As a skier for many years, racer, and ski instructor by the time I started riding , my self-taught style was very much carving as opposed to skidding or jibbing...it just felt right. Over the years I did move on to better gear, proper softboots and strap bindings, but then I found an old Mistral Ecstasy asym carving board on sale, and picked up some K2 Snowboard boots (the ones with the Vibram sole, basically AT boots with the word "Snowboard" printed on the side). That was a revelation, and started my current carving gear collection...

Mind you, in there I was still skiing, instructing, telemarking, patrolling, riding freeride in the powder...not a whole lot of time or $$$ to devote to any one niche...nowadays, I mostly carve or tele ski, depending on location and conditions.

[Thor VonRippington]

Had an old 165 Gnu AntiGravity board, heavy and stiff, black with green graphics (this was mid/late 80s), mounted with Gnu bindings with rigid highbacks and a sort of tongue over the front of the boot.

:lol: I rode that board... same sidecut and flex pattern as my coffee table!

[D-Sub]

1989 or 1990, 1st day sorels on a rental LOOK board. 2nd-6th or so rented those Kemper boots with hard lowers. Got some Sorel Scott Downeys for one season...they sucked. Burton Freestyle from about 1991-1995 when someone loaned me a pair of UPS boots and a PJ7. Still rode softboots most of the time, but the transition felt natural as my friends and I were real keen on carving turns properly in softboots anyway. My friend Che was so fluid carving a soft setup but never made the transition.

[willywhit]

not to nitpick but the antigravity was a 166.

[Phil]

I thought that the Anti was a 156 and the Kinetic was a 166?

[Steve Prokopiw]

carved skis.. stepped on a board with the intention of using hardboots easy transition..
After 20 years of absolutely no skiing and never having carved even one turn on skis with my limited skiing skills on straight skis back in the 70s/80s,I found carving on modern skis to be a surprisingly easy transition from hardbooting on boards.STILL 98% boarder though.

[carvedog]

After 20 years of absolutely no skiing and never having carved even one turn on skis with my limited skiing skills on straight skis back in the 70s/80s,I found carving on modern skis to be a surprisingly easy transition from hardbooting on boards.STILL 98% boarder though.

During a PSIA clinic I tried out some blade skis ( the shorty things ) and ripped them in my Burton Fires. Almost beat the ski school director in a little race course that we did. Not that I know squat about skiing, just drove my knees inside and let em rip. And I could carve.

[tap]

we'll see....have ridden soft boots for 15+ years and love it.

I only got the carving board to keep things interesting. Will be using it with AT boots.

you guys who ride hard boots in deep pow just mystify me...i don't get it.

[eastcoasticerider]

I saw a BUrton Amp 6 in a store and thought wow! That shape really makes more sense than the big round nose and tail design....It was actually easier to learn on than a lunchtray of that era(94-95) i used the 3 strap Torque binding and that was that.......fun fun fun.....I still ride the Amp once in a while....really fun in powder

[SEJ]

Ditto above. Asym alp with Torques and Burton Comp.s at 45/45. I was already half way there.

[spaamport]

I skied until I was about 12, switched to snowboarding when i was 13 and rented for a season a soft boot/ freestyle board setup. It was a Mad Duck (I think) 154 or something similar.

The next year i bought a bigger, heavier, wider board (a '94 K2 Fat Bob 162) but upgraded to 3-strap bindings. Big disappointment. The board was an ogre to turn, even with the extra support of the shin strap. And those K2 boots were terrible. I had major heel lift issues.

Two seasons later I got my first race board, a '95 Oxygen asymetrical slalom 159, but kept my soft boots and 3-strappers for a season because I couldn't afford a 3-way overhaul. But it was like going from driving a dumptruck to a miata - and it was clear that i was going to have to cough it up and buy hard boots and plate bindings soon.

The following year I got Burton Boiler boots and Burton Race plates and I still use those bindings and I just retired the Boilers this year for a new pair of UPZ RSV's.

The switch from soft boots to hard back in '97 was cake. it takes a few days just to get your settings and your angles to where they feel the most natural, but in terms of adjusting to the gear itself, if you've been dreaming of having more response in your ankles, then it will simply be a matter of your board actually doing what you've thought it should be doing all along.

If you're already a proficient freeriding snowboarder, I think the biggest hump is just getting your stance width, your rear foot cant, and your angles right for your body and for what makes you comfortable. The rest should be natural.

[Justin A.]

I'm with Allee, there's no option for "got my ass kicked then it was awesome"

My first day out in hardboots, my new-at-the-time Coiler kicked my ass something awful. I fell more times that day than I have probally ever in all my years of snowboarding. I went home bruised, sore, stiff, and wobbly all at the same time, then went out the next weekend, and since I knew to expect that the board would whisk me off to mach 9.6 in about 300 feet, I did a whole lot better.

[Fastskiguy]

Haha, no mention of "what" you were carving....but a switch (addition?) from sith lord ski carving to alpne snowboard has been great! Same physics, just easier to lay it way over. Harder to find gear. What is this soft boot to which you refer? ;)

[b0ardski]

we'll see....have ridden soft boots for 15+ years and love it.

I only got the carving board to keep things interesting. Will be using it with AT boots.

you guys who ride hard boots in deep pow just mystify me...i don't get it.I ride the pow, trees & carve the groom on stiff all mtn boards w/10 yr old intec stepins & 14yr old magic raichle 123's, they flex nice. I;ve killed a couple good boards w/ this setup.:flamethro

[spaamport]

I don't understand how any snowboarder goes in the trees with confidence WITHOUT a hardboot setup.

Maybe my old softie setup sucked worse than most when I was a kid, but I just don't trust the response of a soft setup when I need to make some tight quick moves in the trees.

My Solomon Burner 172 is heaven is the powder with hardboots. It floats and I don't have to exaggerate every motion to get it to turn in the deep -especially on toe side like you would have to in soft gear.

[philw]

I found the transition from ski boots to snowboard boots took a couple of tries - the early hard snowboard boots were way too soft.

Interesting thread though.


(Soft boots... I only tried the suckers after about 10 years on hard so it's perhaps unfair to judge. United lost my boards and I had to hire the best gear I could find. The boots were professionally fitted, but they just wrecked my feet and legs. Sure I could ride with the strappy/ lacy things, but I could just as easily unbuckle my hard boots if I wanted a sloppy interface.)

[b0ardski]

:D strappy/lacey. my new favorite jab.thnx phil:eplus2:

[b0ardski]

Thought I'd bump this one for all the new blood on the darkside:biggthump

[Petrol]

For me it was just a natural progression. My first soft boot setup felt too sloppy to me. So I switched to some Burton Torque bindings with a third strap over the shin bone and felt better. But I still felt like I wasn't able to hold as good an edge as I would like. Then I saw a friend with hard boots on a snow board. Started on hard boots and never looked back!

I will admit though that I didn't relly make great gains until I hooked up with Bomber and the community here.
I rode flexy & free for a couple years then saw bought and LOVED a new stiff as it got back then for a softy setup, Burton Aysm Air, Comp Boots & Torque bindings.
Kept cranking them angles and digging the carve. I "thought" all was good until I went in a new-to-me shop one summers day and saw a Aysm Alp 7.0 w/ race plates mounted up and a pair of Reactor boots.
I went home and noodled on it for about two hours, went back to the shop and brought it all home for 50% off list.
I spent a good portion of that summer "visualizing".
Fell in :1luvu: on the first run and never saw another hardbooter for my first two seasons.

[RideGuy]

I was a carver on soft boots. When I tried hard booting for the first time it was on boots/bindings/board that was too stiff for me. I had a hell of a time getting it going. If I had been on a proper setup it would have been way easier.

[leeho730]

I'd say 4, but it took me about 20 days. Hasn't looked back since and probably never will.