Bucking the trend or setting it

[Bobby Buggs]

Its been a recent theme among the Carve Father crew to get on Wider boards and still carve. The Carve Father himself is on a 22.5 and Never uses his Prior WC. Another defector went even wider with Jorges Board the 2. Well I have succumbed to this trend and picked up a Nidecker Proto 167, 22.5 and will be testing it out on Friday at Mt Snow.
This will be the widest board I have tried to carve on since 2001.
I know, I cant believe it, a day on the hill without my beloved Coiler AM. I bet I dont sleep a wink Thursday night :freak3:
Have any of you seen or bought into this wider trend?

[mkgillman]

I picked up a Prior 4WD at the beginning of the season more to use as a powder/crud board, but it is the only board that I've taken out this year. It holds a great edge in the hardpack and honestly, the wider platform is really nice when the snow gets sketchy or I come out of a turn a little off balance.

Then again, this isn't just limited to carving boards, look at the width of the skis that are being sold now; everything is getting wider.

[James Ong]

Glad people are coming around, about 3 years behind :biggthump
http://www.extremecarving.com/

[Kimo]

Speaking of that other "defector". I noticed his new board was no where near as wide as the grin on his face after he tore up Buttermilk.

[Gecko]

the next thing you know people will be riding Asyms :smashfrea Ok seriously I understand why people are going wider, it's certainly easier on my knees to run shallower angles, the wider the board the shallower you can go...I'm waiting for my wife to be employed before I buy my next board but I have all but decided that it will be a AM169 with the 23cm waist. Nothing else fits my wants and needs as well.

[Bobby Buggs]

I will be with that Defector on Friday at his home mtn. :biggthump
I always see people say lower angles are easier on the knees. But I feel like on the front foot 60s feel more anatomically correct. I'm wondering how my front knee is going to deal with the lower angles.

[Kimo]

This is starting to sound like those Pontiac commercials from about 8 years ago. Remember "E aho laula"?

[Derf]

I got an Alp this season to try as an all-mountain board and I did not like the width. I only rode it when conditions were soft and I didn't feel confortable at lower angles (50/45 I think?). I only feel confortable at higher angles (63/60 on 18.5 cm). Granted I have not tried a Coiler AM/Donek Axxess/Prior 4WD, but I think it's the width that bugs me, not the flex/feel of the board. Maybe a Coiler AMX with the 19 cm waist would be nice?

[Bobby Buggs]

I can speak from experience when I say you should love the Coiler AM19. Its not part of this wider trend but at this time its still my favorite board. Its tough for me to believe after this Friday I will change my mind but we shall soon see.

[Zone]

No knee problem to report here with the Coiler 169 AM 21.5 waist 55/50. Great board. Very damp, not as lively as the Swoard but for s**tty east coast conditions it is a more reassuring ride.

[crucible]

I have always had a mid size waisted AM carving board, originally a Rossi VAS, then a Burton Alp, then a Sims Daytona, and now a Winterstick Cirque 162.

After seeing Dave *'s Prior 4WD at the WES, I'm saving my money up for one in a 169.

[BlueB]

Hey George, don't order the wrong board ;) - Dave had the ATV, 23.5 waist, stiffened version. It does ride great, even for medium weight guy like me. Knowing how you ride, you could use the stiffened version too, even if you go down to 167...

Your pal,
Boris

[BlueB]

I started on 21 waist and went down to 18 and 19.5. Very narrow I've never particularly liked. 19.5 felt great.
Then, this year I rode whole lot of wider boards, 4WD, Tanker, 4807, 3800, Hornet... What can I say, more effort is required to carve them, but they are way more versatile. My legs seem to be happiest between 50 and 60 degrees, so I ride wider boards with a bit of underhang. My heel side falls appart under 45 deg. At 55 deg I have less quad burn and knees/hips feel happier too.
THEN, I tried the WCR (19.5 waist) last weekend, oh boy! So efortless to get it on the edge. So I guess I'm middle of the road man when it comes to carving.
I'm still going to try Skwal, though ;)

[crucible]

Well caught Boris!

Dave *'s was indeed an ATV- I want a 4WD, a little slim, but with enough curves to get the job done.... 169 will be the length.

I'm rocking the Oxy 164 Proton so much this winter that it's affecting my choices- I keep thinking to myself, "If I could get a board this stiff but 5 cms longer, with a powder spoon nose and a curved square back tail, then it would be perfect for the Coast".

I'm gonna try and demo one from Chris at Easter, then put my order in.

[Jrobb]

This starting to sound like those Pontiac commercials from about 8 years ago. Remember "E aho laula"?

"Bredder err beterer" was my favorite.

J

[tpalka]

As you probably already know, I bought into it a while back :) Hope it works out well for you too.

So is Ronnie riding with lower angles now too? No more sleepless nights thinking of riding with a 30-deg back foot next morning?

tom.

[jtslalom]

I think once some people realize the fact that hard carving can be done on fat freeride boards with soft bindings, alot of guys will be riding them. Nothing carves as nice as a race/carving deck with hard bindings but carving can definately be achieved on soft wide boards.

[Allee]

Most narrow boards are only built for one thing, that being to go straight and fast on groom. If you want something that goes off the corduroy path then a wider AM board with a bit of turn in the nose is always going to be way better. But you still can't beat the feeling of being on a skinny board at mach schnell on a perfectly groomed run, where the edge to edge is instant and effortless ...

19 is a good width for me, but I have to admit the more I ride the Axxess at 21.5, the more I like it.

[Bobby Buggs]

As you probably already know, I bought into it a while back :) Hope it works out well for you too.

So is Ronnie riding with lower angles now too? No more sleepless nights thinking of riding with a 30-deg back foot next morning?

tom.
Yeah Tom, I think he took every sleeping pill he had that night :eek: He is at 50 35. I dont think I will go that low on the back foot but its so easy to adjust the F2 I will find what fits me quickly.

[Bobby Buggs]

Wow, what the hell was all that :freak3:

[Steve Prokopiw]

Got a little too into the trend toward wider boards discussion ;I could have just said I have always liked wider , all mountain boards for carving.Previous message deleted.My apologies

[Kimo]

Has anybody here considered that you might not need wider boards, but smaller feet?

[Zone]

Has anybody here considered that you might not need wider boards, but smaller feet?
How about both wider board and narrow feet :eplus2:

[Gecko]

Has anybody here considered that you might not need wider boards, but smaller feet?

well last I checked there isn't a healthy way to accomplish the smaller feet thing....my feet ain't big but M28 only fits across a 18.8 waist at 51/48 which isn't bad now but my abused knees would like the rear at 45*

[Dave*]

I have to admit I am liking this trend of slightly wider freecarve/AM boards, its nice that you can go to Prior/Coiler etc and order up a stock shape in desired waist width with out the hassle and time delay of a full on one off,

I have a boat load of snowboards actually an obscene number and I think realistically I could get away with just one for all conditions, my stiffened ATV, followed a close second by my 79 4X4 (not quite as all mtn versatile, and soon to be a second one added to the family hehehehheh), I have spent almost 60 % of my riding time in the past two seasons on one of these two decks.

I find angles over about 60 degrees on the front and my riding goes to pot, On my fatties I can back it off to about 38-40 front foot before things go pear shaped ( at those angles on a 25.5 deck I still have underhang)

My next project I am thinking of a widened 179 4x4 to 23.5 or a lengthened ATV to 179 ish ?nose shape decision?, progressivly stiffened to my weight with a ****pile of carbon fiber for some nice lively pop off the tail, inserts wide enough for my tastes, and maybe see if Chris would make it a "skunk werx" no label with a magnetrac edge, not sure if titanal would do anything on this type of deck hmmmmmm getting off topic.

Crucible (george) dont rule out the wider ATV especially one to your body weight/aggression level with the amount of off piste you do, the ATV has a much better nose for off piste than the 4x4, and that extra 2 cms of width and slacker angles makes for a much superior powder/arboreal weapon.

Dave*

[Przemek/Brooklyn]

Here is my 50 cents

Advantages of going wide:

1 Better EC i am not sure exaclywhy but that swoard think works
2 bigger feet and more comfortable position
3 less likely to be bother on the slope by others. (looks like more common snowboard)
4 Jumping (this one is big) it just feels beter on wider board

Disadvantges

1 Ice

[philfell]

Racers have been on wider equipment for many years now. Personally I think you can go too wide for carving performance. For me I wouldn't want a G.S. type board wider than 21.5, but I have a 25 mondo size foot.

A wider board is more stable, and you can ride lower angles which put you in better balance and have more power.

[Jon Dahl]

I believe this is neither bucking the trend nor setting it. I find that on hero snow I love my 173 Renntiger with its narrow waist. But I have been riding a 158 F2 Breezer all this season for steeps/trees/bumps and believe it or not for a foot and a half of resort freshies. This little guy has a 22.8 waist and I have been able to run down bigger guys on wider freestyle boards in the fresh. It's probably not the ideal stick for this but if I'm careful it works. It is way too tight of a radius for real carving, but it does beg that some questions be asked. Are we guilty of pushing huge length boards a little too much? Do we push the super skinny widths more than we should? What would make the ideal do all resort board for my conditions? Not that I would consider only one board for everything, but something that always makes the trip in the car when I go. I'm thinking something along the lines of a slightly narrower version of the 164 Rad-air LSD, 10-10.5 sidecut, 160-165 length, a small rounded tail ala the Axxess, a little more nose for resort pow, and enough stiffness to lay down the law on groomers w/o killing off groom performance too much. The perfect match for a 192 Tanker!

[BShaw]

I am currently riding a 169 Donek Wide with soft boots. I can't carve as good as I could on my Coiler, but still can definitely carve on it. It has a 10.2 side cut and a 5.5 on the Donek Scale for stiffness.

Although Next season I think I will have a different board built. I am looking for a 11.2 side cut with about the same stiffness and a little longer edge, still riding soft boots.

[Phil]

Here I go stealing Boostertwo's pictures again - I am going to have to pay him royalties.;)

Snowboards carve.

28 cm waist (I think):

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=7425&stc=1

[Kimo]

Here I go stealing Boostertwo's pictures again - I am going to have to pay him royalties.;)

Snowboards carve.

28 cm waist (I think):



My $0.02... yes, this is carving, but it's just not the same thing.

[BShaw]

Definetely not the same thing. But neither is carving on Narrow Virus compared to the Sword (EC). I don't think it matters what style of board you ride. As long as the running length, effective edge, stiffness and side cut match your carving style.

This all goes back to what angles feel correct to you.

Myself I am riding 39(f) 33(r) in softies. I cannot go to much further with my Rear foot without requiring a hardboot. My front I can ride all the way up to 45(f) with no issues.

All I can say is, if your carving trenches down the hill, People watch.
If your skidding, you look like all the rest.

I still get asked questions about my equipment all the time, from both hardboots and softies.

[Phil]

My $0.02... yes, this is carving, but it's just not the same thing.

I guess my point is that we get caught up in a lot of board tech when the bottom line is that a good carver is a good carver. It is about the rider more than it is about the board. An expert carver can outcarve most of us (hardbooters) on a soft setup. I have been outcarved by guys who are riding duck stances on freestyle noodles. I would bet that they would outcarve about 85% of the BOL'ers as well. They are just better athletes with better (more effective and efficient) technique. Would they carve better on hardboots? Of course, but if it ain't broke, they're not going to fix it. There are also hardbooters that can regularly outride park/pipe rats on their own turf.
It's not what you ride, but how you ride it.

That's my $0.02 - and I will be a hardbooter to the end.

[BlueB]

It's not what you ride, but how you ride it.
AMEN!

[crucible]

:cool: A drill instructor in the service once told me, "Be afraid of the man that as only one gun- it usually means he's had a LOT of practice with it and knows how to use it".

I think that might apply to snowboarders too.... :cool:

[BShaw]

No, I have no intentions in turning hardbooters into softbooters. Although I do try to get everyone carving, no matter what the equipment.

[Steve Prokopiw]

I find that part of the addiction I seem to have developed recently for surfing this site is the tech stuff.I can see that of the appeal of the pure carving equipment and specs/angles has maybe as much to do with it as the actual riding.(I'm like that with bike stuff) I used to ride narrow carving boards (late80s-mid90s)all the time and eventually became more of a one board rider on an allmountain board,but never got out my hard boots.For me it's always been about the boots being more comfy and supportive and the heel hold of the boots being superior.The boards have been secondary.That said ,I am buying extra lotto tickets in the hopes of affording the type of pure carving steup from the new millenium that I read about here.P.S. It's alot of fun carving regular and switch on a 25-26 waist ,allterrain stick with 45 degree angles and an inch of underhang.(this is a shorter, slightly less self absorbed version of what I deleted yesterday)