Chooding a binding: to step-in or not.

[hugo]

I found a board, I found my boots (Raichle 123) and now I found, locally, a guy selling 2 pairs of bindings and I need to choose one set.

They are:
- Burton Race (aluminium plate covered with plastic)
- Burton Race Automat Step-In (aluminium covered with plastic and heels and toe are in aluminium)

I read the reviews on the first model, but it looks like the other model is more rare. Any opinions on them? Which one has the better reputation? The step-in one has no wire or remote device to dis-engage.

I know that Burton Race is not a choice for the professionals but for a beginner like me I think they would be OK.

The price would be US $75 for the 1st model, $90 for the 2nd one.

[klaucke]

I don't know much about the bindings themselves, but I do know after over a year of riding my normal Cateks, and watching guys just step in to theirs, I'm extremely envious. I would say that if both bindings look equally durable, and one doesn't flex undesirably, then go for the step in. Its nice to just get off the lift and *step in* as the name implies. It should be noted though, that it really isn't that bad to put them on the old fashioned way. However, maybe you could hit him up on the price b/c klugriding.com was selling them or something similar for 85 bucks new http://www.klugriding.com/product_group.php?product_group_id=82
Personally, I have an old pair of F2 bindings that remind me why I ride Cateks-- because they are solid-- and which you might want to consider a little later as they [or TDs] are a good investment in bindings.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I'd go for the plain Burton Race, the Automat is kinda kludgy, not nearly as nice as the newer Intec or FAST design step-ins. I think the simpler design of the race will work better and more reliably. Others here will try to steer you away from the Race but for a beginner's binding it is fine. Make sure to inspect the plastic bits before you buy for any cracks or other signs of wear, and inspect them regularily while you use them.

If you really want step-in, you can get into a set of F2 Intec Challenge from Blue Tomato for around $US106, and the heels to match them go for $50, so you're double your budget on the Race. Which should be cheaper than $75 used anyways IMNSHO.

[woodman]

I own two pairs of F2 Titanium step-in's an '03 pair and an '04 and I think they ROCK!!! I had SnowPro LTD's last season and a used pair of TD1 step-ins and must confess I like my F2's best outta the whole bunch. They are a bit pricey, but still cheaper than new TD2's and on par with used TD1's (about $180 from BlueTomato) I've been riding plates for 3 seasons now and consider step-in's to be the creme de la creme in bindings. Go with what you can afford, but in the end you'll want step-in's sooner or later...:D
Good luck,

Paul

[Steve Dold]

Hugo, some of these posts are not very clear. The Burton stepins you were asking about are very weak and of poor design compared to the "Intec" step in system used on Bomber, F2 Titanium, and others. This system uses a special heel that screws to the boot, so you need to have boots that are made to fit this Intec heel. I think the 123 is compatable, but needs to have T-nut inserts added (which come loose with the Intec heels).

I've watched people stepping into their Carriers and wondered how anyone could trust a system that appears so flimsy.

Yes, you'll probably want a step-in system some day, but I don't think you'll want the Automat style.

[hugo]

So I hear some of you saying to stay away from the burton step-in, but I'm not sure we're talking of the same model. I've seen Automat on the web that look like toys, this one seems more solid.

I have a picture of what model is it. (This is the actual product I am offered). From that picture, can you tell me if this is a model considered dangerous / not safe.

[klaucke]

That binding looks plenty beefy for a beginner, for 15 more bucks I'd go step in. If you have a problem, that's reason enough to buy Cateks! However, I doubt you would unless your linking EC turns very soon.

[klaucke]

I'd check the interface with your boot as well before handing over the cash, but other than that, I don't think that binding would be too flimsy or unsafe. Also, do those bindings have the right plate [3x3 or 4x4] for your board? People break bindings all the time, even TD2's [Jacques Rilliet], so if you were really super concerned, just check for stress cracks etc each time before you go out. I've seen guys who had equally flimsy burtons riding pretty hard. Honestly, if there were to be a failure I think it would more likely due to incorrect adjustment [not enough bail tension, my first time ever riding alpine I made this mistake, and found out at speed!] or fasteners loosening up. If you're a beginner, I doubt you'll be going mach II or laying down horizontal carves, so I wouldn't worry too much about failure. It may be naive or utopian to think so, but I doubt anyone including Burton would put to market a binder that is absolutely junk and will break without warning. Ski blades have bails half the diameter of my Cateks yet I see kids take huge diggers on jumps and have no problems.

Personally, I found that with my completely junk F2 bindings, they never became that big a problem because the F2 Beamer they were mounted to was the fuse of the system: the board would give out in carves way before the suckiness of the binding came into play. The biggest and only problem was just looking down and seeing them and knowing I could make my legs bow or de-bow at will, but they held my feet fine on that board [once I tightened up the bails during that first time out].

Hopefully someone who has used this binding will reply and tell you if they liked it or not. It seems you are leaning towards SI anyway so go with what you personally want. It's tough to look back and think of what could have been when you're sitting is wet snow trying to flip that bail over. Sometimes I have to sit down if it's a steep slope I'm trying to flip in on.

Lastly, I'd say take anything anyone has to say with a grain of salt, i.e. some people swear against Chrysler products, but my Jeep Cherokee has 141,000 miles and runs like new [when was the last time you heard of a Cherokee dieing at 100,000?]!

[Mike T]

I prefer Intec step-ins for the convenience and also the fact that you get a good tight fit without straining the boot at all. Believe it or not I've also found step-ins require less on-hill maintainence. I ride at Mount Hood where right-around-freezing, snowy days are commonplace; I always had trouble with just enough ice and snow caking up on the toe and heel blocks of my traditional bindings to make it so I couldn't clip in without de-icing, and with the Intecs, I've yet to experience that problem.

If you do get intecs, grease the pins. Especially when the heels or bindings are new. It'll help get a positive engagement.

[johnstewart]

Originally posted by klaucke

Lastly, I'd say take anything anyone has to say with a grain of salt, i.e. some people swear against Chrysler products, but my Jeep Cherokee has 141,000 miles and runs like new [when was the last time you heard of a Cherokee dieing at 100,000?]!

Well, I'm on my 3rd engine on my Cherokee (at just under 200k miles). It happens. :D

As for Burton step-ins, I've ridden on a well-used pair for a year and I don't like 'em, but they're not bad to start. However, I was scared of them as I started to learn to make harder carves. The TDs I just started riding feel soooo solid it's amazing.

But if and when you upgrade, you can throw your crappy bindings onto a 2nd board.

Also, I think you (hugo) bought some 123's from me. Yes, the Intec heels will fit on (I just put some on my 123's). You will have to do some drilling to get the hole for the cable wide enough, and pilot holes for the heel screws. My advice is to drill out the cable hole, then put the heel onto the boot before drilling the pilot holes - this way you know you've got them in the right place.

[BRAD PETER]

I own both bindings and the step while not unsafe is inferior to the race and has a good deal of slop in the fit and this is compaired to the burton race which is known to have a good deal of flex. I use the step in on a powder board I ride with hard boots this is where this binding belongs get the race plate

[Maciek]

Go With Race Plate from Burton.

Forget that crap Automat. They are very poor quality (if anything from Burton was a good quality for that matter).

They will not hold boot properly and if you ride more aggresively you will pull your feet from Automat easily.

Burton step-ins were not much worth. If you look at forum archive from las years you will find out what was wrong with almost all Burton bindings.

Now there were several relatively durable Burton Race Plates and not all year models. I used make circa 1997 or 1998. They did not break even though I bet their aluminum base to U-shape, but they still are in my chest of spare gear. I know that next years make of the same model had problem with contnuously breaking translucent plastic. Thsi may be not a problem for light or entry level rider.

Anyway once you progress to next level you will end up with Bomber TD's, Catek or that class of binding eventually.

Ask other's if you do't believe > I do not want to sound as advertisment again... but that's what happens.

[hugo]

Originally posted by Kent
Hugo - perhaps you can mention your size....height/weight.
Without that info, its too difficult to help ya.
You can't go wrong with the Burton race if your a newbie (unless you're pushing over 210ish). The Automats are a pretty weak design and generally work best for riders under 140ish.
Kent

I'm 180lbs... 5'8"
I really don't like the fact thoses burton step-ins are prone to release that easily. After reading all the comments I think I will go with the standard race plate. It seems this design survived longer than the step-in... Prefer to sit down every run than to break a leg once. (Not that this is impossible with the other one but a quick count of the comments and it's enough to make a choice.)
If I get really serious on the sport then I'll upgrade for the higher-end models next season.
Thank you all for the responses.