Carving styles

[woodman]

After going to the snowsticks web site and viewing some of those cool clips that were linked to the "freecarving clips" post (thanks for that post BTW) my son and I got to looking at the different styles. My riding style more closely resembles CMC's across the piste rounder carves than say PSRs style or The "Mac Daddy" guy from Stratton with his quick SL type transitions. I realize SL and GS type carves are naturally different in look/approach/technique and you can mix both styles into your run, but after watching half a dozen of those clips we both agreed that I ride more like CMC. It's cool to watch someone else and see your style reflected in someone elses riding technique (as in my style reflecting CMC's, he's been doing this ALOT longer than me :D ) . It also puts more stock in the advice these people whom I've mentioned above give as well because now I can actually see them ride. I hope to have some video of myself soon and will post to the snowsticks site when I do. The videos also seem to be a great tool for those of us without an extensive "carving" video library to study technique and riding styles. I just wish someone would come out with something new and on DVD! I'd like to see some more of our regular fav's here posted on that site or on Bomber as well (Jack, Pat Donnelly, Baka Dasai, PhilFel, etc) Jack how about an instructional Video or DVD going over everything from the basics to full on Eurocarves? Kind of a "Carving 101" video guide? How about it boys?

Thanks,

Paul

[gdboytyler]

From the videos I've seen, the guys from extremecarving.com and CMC look to be the best carvers around, and they've got totally different styles.

Extremecarving style = shoulders parallel to the board, like a surfer.
CMC = shoulders perpendicular to the board, like a skier.

I believe CMC’s style is the style backed by the technique articles here on Bomber. It is also the style taught by the coach who gave me my only snowboarding lesson ever.

Coming from a surfing background, I think the extremecarving style looks better and feels more natural. It is now the way I ride, even when I’m not trying Eurocarves.

The latest video from extremecarving.com shows them carving on a pretty steep slope. Probably the steepest slope I’ve seen someone linking carved turns that wasn’t a powder run. Is there a video of someone using CMC’s style to carve on a comparably steep slope?

Anyone know what size/model board that CMC is using in the videos?

[christoph]

Have a look at this videos by pureboarding. There you can see another style with a lot of rotation.

http://www.pureboarding.com/en/doku/video_info.php4?page=3
http://www.pureboarding.com/en/doku/video_info.php4?page=1

[Jack Michaud]

Originally posted by gdboytyler
Extremecarving style = shoulders parallel to the board, like a surfer.
CMC = shoulders perpendicular to the board, like a skier.

They seem to alternate, actually. Often when they are fully laid out, their shoulders are perpendicular to the board, or even beyond perpendicular. You can especially see this in the final scene of Opus 3: Stoked, where Jacques comes to a stop laid out on heelside. Great comedy, btw! Also in many of the still pictures on the site they are squared up to the board.


I believe CMC’s style is the style backed by the technique articles here on Bomber. It is also the style taught by the coach who gave me my only snowboarding lesson ever.

It is.


Coming from a surfing background, I think the extremecarving style looks better and feels more natural. It is now the way I ride, even when I’m not trying Eurocarves.

If you have the hero snow, go for it, it's tons of fun. But it's simply a fact of physics that getting closer to the board like Curt will give you more balance on icier conditions.


The latest video from extremecarving.com shows them carving on a pretty steep slope. Probably the steepest slope I’ve seen someone linking carved turns that wasn’t a powder run. Is there a video of someone using CMC’s style to carve on a comparably steep slope?

Opus 3: Stoked is easily one of the coolest, smoothest carving videos ever, and certainly the best I've seen in recent memory. I just watched it, and now I am jonesing hard. I love that music, and the carving and scenery is breathtaking. Patrice and Jacques get a standing-O from me where I sit! However I think what you're referring to is parts of the video where they tilt the camera. The terrain isn't crazy steep.
-Jack

[gdboytyler]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud
They seem to alternate, actually. Often when they are fully laid out, their shoulders are perpendicular to the board, or even beyond perpendicular. You can especially see this in the final scene of Opus 3: Stoked, where Jacques comes to a stop laid out on heelside. Great comedy, btw! Also in many of the still pictures on the site they are squared up to the board.


Jacques & Patrice seem to only rotate their shoulders as part of a big carve, where as CMC seems to always have his shoulders turned. So, having my shoulders parallel to the board between big carves, just feels more natural.


However I think what you're referring to is parts of the video where they tilt the camera. The terrain isn't crazy steep.


No, the terrain is not crazy steep. But, from the view at the beginning of the video, it looks steep enough that I would be skidding a lot of turns. All the other videos I’ve seen of people carving , the slopes look like easy cruisers.

[ssteff]

hello,
i think that in de EC, the shoulders are not parallell to the board, but perpendicular to the feet.
i see that in de file "Separate Zee Knees" here on bomber, it's mentioned that you should keep your shoulder also "level to the slope of the hill". what do you mean by that?
greetz, stef.

[nils]

well as mentioned earlier in our forum to gdboytyler,
steep for me is when you cannot link laid carves anymore! I guess my personnal limit is in the 35° range, which is already kind of steep.

Above its not carveable, or by very few people, or by using another technique as race technique, implying you are likely to increase speed and get killed ( ;)..

As for steepness in the different opus's, stoked was mainly shot on a 30° something slope, and Extremedreamer has been shot there on this slope (picture) its near the 32-33° I guess: same resort but a mile away.
Am trying to edit a small clip someone shot at our meeting two weeks ago that shows how its still possible to carve low, maintain low speed and survive :). Will post it when ready!

http://www.extremecarving.com/attachments/lacorne.jpg

Nils

[pokkis]

That was nice and challenging slope, as Nils said :D
Condition and visibility were so great that it was really pleasure ride it, even it still feels little steepish for me :p
Untill we wait to official pics and film come out, there are few pics availbale of this and other slope mentioned via my page
pokkis.ojankaivajat.org (http://pokkis.ojankaivajat.org) in Pictures Zinal section
To see how it feels to ride this slope in Nils picture, you can take alook this onboard camera clip, size 9Megs
LeCol (http://koti.mbnet.fi/carving/forum/albums/Zinal/LeCol.wmv)
Yes, i will upload also pics of my camera setup as soon i have time take pics.

[cmc]

that hill looks sweet. Vlad, good ride Stratton today. Soon I hope see you. Fun will ECES be, you there I hope. :D

[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by pokkis
To see how it feels to ride this slope in Nils picture, you can take alook this onboard camera clip, size 9Megs
LeCol (http://koti.mbnet.fi/carving/forum/albums/Zinal/LeCol.wmv)


That video is a real laugh! Where was the camera mounted?

I'm pretty sure that my head stays fairly upright when I'm carving, so I've never really had a view like that. It's a bit dizzying.

[pokkis]

It is mounted on my board, 10 cm front of my binding and 30 cm above top of board. I've tried also helmet cam but it does not give same effect :) current stand is too shaky :D but new proto is on way for our Oppdal CarvingCamp :p

[johnstewart]

Originally posted by pokkis
It is mounted on my board, 10 cm front of my binding and 30 cm above top of board. I've tried also helmet cam but it does not give same effect :) current stand is too shaky :D but new proto is on way for our Oppdal CarvingCamp :p

Very nice!

I've been contemplating trying this for some time, and am curious how you did it (and what you're doing for shock absorption on your new model).

Also, what camera did you use?

I'll be doing mini-DV, and would like to find out more... if I can learn more before hacking, maybe I can avoid repeating mistakes, etc.

thanks

johnS

[Justin A.]

MAAAAAAJOR AWESOME!!!!
-Justin
________
Plymouth Voyager 3 History (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Plymouth_Voyager_3)

[Jack Michaud]

Okay, what is the electro-ambient music in Stoked? (this one: http://www.okao.com/films/2003/wmv/stoked1.wmv)

Who is it, what album? I like, I like.

[corey_dyck]

'Stoked' really got me going too. I'm not sure what's better, the carving or the music...

[kjl]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud
Okay, what is the electro-ambient music in Stoked? (this one: http://www.okao.com/films/2003/wmv/stoked1.wmv)

Who is it, what album? I like, I like.

"Breathe", by Télépopmusik, on the "Genetic World" album. I hear the rest of the songs on the album aren't so hot.

[nils]

Just edited quickly a small view of Jacques riding that slope two weeks ago at the meeting:
quicktime clip 1,7 mb (http://www.extremecarving.com/attachments/ECS2004lacorne.mov)

Shows its steep ! I like the part when the ski woman has to stop in order not to get into the spray :).Quality of compression not optimal but had no time for more (pokkis am still waiting for your tapes so i can edit the full video of the event !)

Music from stoked!> "breathe" , its a good remix by "Telepop musik" (all letters attached) , a french electro band. Original song is from a band called Dinner time, but has less groove, song might be called "another day" in this version.

N.

[jason_watkins]

Originally posted by johnstewart
Very nice!

I've been contemplating trying this for some time, and am curious how you did it (and what you're doing for shock absorption on your new model).

Also, what camera did you use?

I'll be doing mini-DV, and would like to find out more... if I can learn more before hacking, maybe I can avoid repeating mistakes, etc.

thanks

johnS

I'd thought about getting a lipstick cam and building a little brace/stand that would screw into one of the un-used insert pair toward the nose.

You also might try running the footage through motion stabilization software like SteadyMove... that's some pretty hard shake (double image) but it might be worth a shot.

[Zone]

Great clip. Love the respect of the skier behind Jacques!!

[eddie]

Extremecarving style = shoulders parallel to the board, like a surfer.


CMC = shoulders perpendicular to the board, like a skier.


Coming from a surfing background, I think the extremecarving style looks better and feels more natural. It is now the way I ride, even when I’m not trying Eurocarves.

Humm... I surfed for 14 years and before I moved to Utah. I was a sort of a surf style junkie. Invested countless hours on boards of various gun, fish, twin fin and thruster shapes from different surfing eras trying to imitate the older power surfers of the 70's and 80's. While studying old photos, I noticed surfers styles would vary from parallel to perpendicular shoulder placement depending on how aggressive a turn. Check out old photos of M.R., Larry Bertlemann, Simon Anderson or even Tom Curren and you will notice that they are masters of angulation and inclination and their stances are much more similar to CMC's style. What makes it look so different is that their feet are not at high angles.

Once your mind adjusts to the high angle stance you'll see that carving is not so hard if you have a lot of surfing experience. This is my second year of carving and I can consistently lay a carve with an 85* angle to the snow; flexing my 185 FP to carve as tight as my 171 Rossi. This is because I surfed with the same style as CMC.

[gdboytyler]

Originally posted by eddie
...Check out old photos of M.R., Larry Bertlemann, Simon Anderson or even Tom Curren and you will notice that they are masters of angulation and inclination and their stances are much more similar to CMC's style. What makes it look so different is that their feet are not at high angles.


At the apex of a laid out carve, the styles of Jacques/Patrice and CMC look like they have a lot of similarities.

Its the set up to the turn that I see the biggest difference. You don't see any top surfers setting up a carve with their arms extended at their sides like airlplane wings.

Now here's a real surf style turn from one of the new guys (and current world champion)

http://64.78.63.45/live/billabong/mdka03/photos/aiwaterL.jpg

[eddie]

Remember what I said about the foot angles. Look at Andy's upper body, it's the same movement (angulation and inclination) but if he had higher foot angles his upper body would look like CMC. Turning a surfboard is different than a snowboard but applying pressure to the edge/rail from the upper body is the same.

Not everyone puts their arms out like wings, but it looks like AI is doing it.

I know I am pretty off topic but I thought sharing some info might help others from the surfing community carry over knowledge to the carving community.

[eddie]

That photo just makes me homesick.

[pokkis]

I added few shots of my camera stand on my site, link is there above :D
As you see current proto is very simple and i will modify it triangle so it will not vibrate so much as current one.

[johnstewart]

Originally posted by pokkis
I added few shots of my camera stand on my site, link is there above :D
As you see current proto is very simple and i will modify it triangle so it will not vibrate so much as current one.

Interesting. Unfortunately, my DV camera does not have a video-in option, so I may have to mount the whole thing on the nose... I'll need something strong and not sure how to do that at this point. Maybe I'll just duct tape it to the board. =)

Let us know how the new prototype goes.

[pokkis]

I suggest that dont put camera on board, it will not survive, best option is duct tape it to your front boot :D but even that is quite risky if your camera is not on of those small ones.

[Jack Michaud]

I give you this assignment: mount the camera on your board's tail and have Patrice or Jacques follow you closely. I think that would be pretty damn cool.

[pokkis]

We are planning to experiment that in our Oppdal CarvingCamp :D
Unfortunately can not try that with J&P due distance between Finland and Switzerland, but perhaps one of you can try that in Aspen during SES ??
We have tested also holding camera mounted in handlebar and with wide angle lens and shooting back but it is not so easy as it sounds :D
Most slopes in Zinal were too steep for me to ride and film same time, i still need practice :p

[Enzo]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud
Okay, what is the electro-ambient music in Stoked? (this one: http://www.okao.com/films/2003/wmv/stoked1.wmv)

Who is it, what album? I like, I like.

Sorry for getting a little off-topic, but if you like this type of electro-ambient music, you should check out the Delicious Lo-Fi Lounge radio station on www.live365.com The song "Breathe" by Telepopmusik is part of the rotation. While working at my desk, I listen to the station a lot. It's a good stress relief and very relaxing.
Enzo

[cmachine]

Extremecarving.com style = shoulders parallel to the board, like a surfer.

Hi all

That's true; but only for frontside.

The extremecarving.com style uses rotation in both turns. This means:
-shoulders are perpendicular to the board in backside
-shoulders are parallel to the board in FS

This is true for laid and non laid turns. You can see this in the stoked video: There are some non laid passages at the end of the video.


Best Regards

Olaf

[eos4life]

Hello, Kent!

Could you put me on your list of future buyer for the DVD?

This is a great learning tool. I started with plates in January. So far, I'm still having fun being lousy. But I would like to increase my status as a carver. Altough, the Norm and other techniques related articles are GREAT, a video would be something that would help me. My local ski hill is fairy small and only have about 5 to 10 trencher on a good day. So advice are fairly limited.

The season is quickly coming to a end. But I'm already thinking of next year.

Thanks, Francois


Originally posted by Kent
DVD is in the works. Doesn't look like it will make it for this season....

Instructional for both freecarving and racing.

Kent