Tips to get me off the Toilet

[RDY_2_Carve]

After seeing some videos of myself I've realized that my heelside is trash! Note to self: Just because you are making pretty trenches does not mean you don't look like a poser!

Sorry Rob Stevens-I'm not posting the videos on here! Maybe after I fix this problem I'll post a before and after video... ;)

Any basic tips to help me get off the toilet? Something straight forward and basic that I can focus on right before I start my run would be ideal. Definately not looking to get overwhelmed! One liners like "focus on looking uphill to keep your body facing the nose" are prime examples of what I'm looking for. I plan on taking a handful of these tidbits of information and focusing on each one individually.

P.S. I spent a good hour last night re-reading all the tech articles on the subject. Good stuff

P.S.S. Thanks in advance!

[Jack Michaud]

Realize that your knees are simply there for shock absorption - not to "get low". People who sit on the toilet usually try to sink down into the carve with their knees first, before actually tipping the board up on edge. So do it the other way - tip the board up first, bend you knees second. Not that you should ever be riding with straight knees, but I think you know what I mean.

[Mike T]

Disclaimer: I'm not an instructor or a coach, nor do I play one on TV. I'm just telling you something that worked for me.

Try the "Pencil Pinching" drill on Jack's practice drills page:

http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/practice_drills.cfm

If you try to do this while sitting on the toilet, one of the following happens:

1) Your weight goes over the tail and your board slides out from underneath you. :p
2) You pinch at the belly instead of at the side, just above the hip, and your butt slides off the back of the toilet, which demonstrates that you need to try the drill again only pinching at the side :nono:
3) You make the necessary adjustment to your body position, are no longer sitting on the toilet, and probably hook up a beautiful heelside :biggthump

I can see how this drill wouldn't click for everyone but it worked for me. The key is to not do #2 and pinch at the belly and stick your butt out even more. I found it helpful to think to myself "jam your ribs into your hip bone".

If I find my technique sloppy on a steeper run I frequently use this drill to get my mojo back. It's usually my heelside that goes to **** on steeper stuff.

[jdgang]

the following is a satirical comment. the writer of the following does not premote and demote the above style of riding......that said


I love sitting on the toilet it gets with away from the wife and kids for awhile.


on the serious side. I do the same thing I am going to check out that article

[Rob Stevens]

Sometimes, if I look down the fall line when I'm in the end of a heel turn, my head and shoulders get pulled forward, because that's where I'm looking.

I find I keep my back straighter if I'm already looking to the SIDE of the run, when I'm at the apex.

That seems to be the deal for better style on the heels. My lower body isn't doing anything different... My ass goes to the inside and the board goes on edge. The only reason you look like you're ass is sticking out is because you might be letting turn forces pull your shoulders outside.

I think MikeT has a good one, too, thinking about a bit of "pelvic tilt". Some core strenth (hip bones to rib cage, internally rotating by compressing your lower abdominals) would keep your whole body "stacked" a bit better.

For "muscle memory", do some wall sits with your feet out from the wall a couple of board widths, having both hip and shoulder on the wall at the same time. Really make it tough by going into a slightly "inclined" position by bringing your hip forward through internal rotation, off the wall, while your shoulder stays in place supporting you. Just to re-inforce things more, you could look to the side, too.

[RicHard]

I'm not posting the videos on here!
So I will not post my suggestions here.

What a speech?! Dont' you think that seeing you could help us to help you?
If you don't post it, you don't need just an instructor: you need a magician that can guess what you are (not) doing on your board...

Boh?!...

[RDY_2_Carve]

So I will not post my suggestions here.

What a speech?! Dont' you think that seeing you could help us to help you?
If you don't post it, you don't need just an instructor: you need a magician that can guess what you are (not) doing on your board...

Boh?!...

Richard-It's embarrasing to say the least. I do understand where you're coming from though. I'm ashamed after two years on plates that I ride like a tool. I guess I should be content since I've only been on snow for three years now, but at the same time I know I should be further along than this. This is the year I was hoping to get into the intermidiate level but I'm not even close.

Honestly my toe side is not much better than my heelside but I'm trying to keep it simple by focusing on one thing at a time. I know for a fact that I'm sitting on the toilet and counter-rotating so I figured I'd address that first.

IMHO if I post a video my riding is going to get ripped to shreds (in a good way). I'm not so sure that trying to take in that much information at once is really going to help me. I already feel somewhat overloaded reading the tech articles so I think I'm just going to start over and do some norm carves and try to take baby steps to break some of these bad habits I've formed. Actually if Jack saw the video that's probably what he'd suggest for me anyways.

[RicHard]

I can understand your point of view but, if you don't show yourself here where many many people can suggest something to you, where could you post it?
I mean: you are talking about "toilet" but maybe that, watching you, someone can discover some major problems that leads you to such position! Such position could not be the cause but just...the consequence of something wrong.
You're right: don't focus on too many things. But posting the video, could help us to suggest you the MAIN thing to focus on while you could focus on something that is just marginal.
Hope that this explains better my point of view.
All of us have many things that is better not to show. I post my best pictures but you can bet on the fact I've got many terrible ones. I practice my technique on the best slope, but you can bet on the fact that difficult one makes my imperfections in the technique comes up.
So... less shame can helps to improve in a shorter time your riding.
;-)
I'm now riding since 1992-1993... and I thing I'm at 60% of my way for riding at a good level...
Regards,
Richard.

[felix]

What against the toilet seat?

If you watch racers many are allways on the toilet seat during backside carves. If you are really low with your knees why shouldn't you?
I agree its better to be able carve both ways, but in a GS race course I feel much more comfortable breaking at the waist than not.

Its much easier to put in a drift when your on the toilet seat and you don't lock into the carve. Breaking at the waist enables me to perfectly ride around the triangle flag because its so easy to adjust the radius. Skiers in SL/GS also allways break at the waist and do a little counter rotation.

[RicHard]

racers many are allways on the toilet seat during backside carves. If you are really low with your knees why shouldn't you?

I would underline the difference between bend at the waist and sitting on the toilet.
The sitting on the toilet occurs usually when your legs are almost straight while your torso is bent at the waist a lot; most of the times, with counter rotation and shoulders mor back than the waist.
Bend at the waist is not wrong in advance: you have to watch how the rest of your body is aligned.

[todd]

I agree with RicHard, if you want the correct feedback, a good teacher needs to understand exactly what you look like before, during, and after when you feel like you are "sitting on the toilet". And to know your motivation: what were you trying to do in that part of the video.

[RDY_2_Carve]

Ok guys I give in. The Video is processing on Google so it'll be a bit.

In the meantime here's a pic of me at SES 06 which is pretty much a prime example. Thank you Scott Firestone for the pic (I don't have many)! Wish I had some to be proud of though...Be gentle!

http://www.alpinecarving.com/ses06/wed/6563.jpg

[felix]

Sorry, I don't really understand the difference (I really don't want to hijack your thread. But for me the following picture is a prime example of sittin on the toilet. However I do quite well riding like this.


http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/4858/felixbackside8yh.th.jpg (http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=felixbackside8yh.jpg)


http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=felixbackside8yh.jpg

[RDY_2_Carve]

Here's the video link (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7183855727670512712&hl=en)

[trikerdad]

There are a lot of more qualified people than me to comment on what you're doing but, here's my two cents worth. You wanted simple things to concentrate on. 1: Keep your hands in front of you at all times, picture a ski pole held between them parallel to the snow. Your right hand waving behind you should be across your board on your heelside. 2: Tell yourself to look, look, look your turns, both toe and heelside. Every time I get sloppy it's because I'm looking down the fall line instead of where I would go if I continued my turn. While standing in the lift line, see how far you can see behind you over your heelside shoulder then try to duplicate it on the hill. You'll find your butt over the board and your turns snapping around.

[Jack Michaud]

The sitting on the toilet occurs usually when your legs are almost straight

ummm.... then it would be called something other than "sitting".

[Jack Michaud]

gotta be brief because it's bedtime. You are counter-rotating at the waist. It is subtle, but it's there. The board goes left, but your upper body doesn't. At the end of your toeside turn, look way around in the direction of the next turn you're about to make, and make sure you can <i>see</i> your back hand somewhere in your peripheral vision throughout the transition and the heelside carve. Think of pointing your front knee where you want to go, and follow through with the back knee.

[utahcarver]

R2C:

Keep the outside arm down and in front of your field of view. This has been overly discussed in other threads and it is a recurring problem among the community. Trikerdad nails this in suggesting that you picture a ski pole held parallel between your hands. Years ago, long before I remotely knew what I the hell I was doing (and not that I do now), I taught my 3 cubs to use 'imaginary handlebars' in front of them when they initiated a turn.

What it did for them was to help them not to counter-rotate at the waist and shoulders and it kept them off of the tails of their boards. Also, heads up! A newbie (and some of us oldsters) wants to look at the tip of the board (...and I find myself slipping into this filthy habit when I'm tired and need to get off the hill) keep your head up and look in the direction of the turn.

You are probably getting some edge chatter from time to time on your heelsides. To correct this, outside arm down, look in the direction of your turn, keep applying pressure on the tongues of your boots to initiate the turn; feed the board underneath your feet (kinda like you'd feed a dollar bill through a change machine) and finish the turn with your weight beginning to pressure the tail.

Also, go to oldsnowboards.com and read The Core Four by the Delaney Bros. as a primer for all-around riding.

This, or eating like a supermodel, will keep you off of the toilet.

Mark

[felix]

I get video currently unavailable??

[gabor]

Hi,

I found the videos not so bad. Yes, does not look nice but way better than really sitting on the toilet. Go to the articles section and read "the norm II" and "Practice drills". I think the shoulders level to the slope (you fail to do it on frontside carves) and back hand touching front boot on backsides should help a lot.

[RicHard]

Here's the video link (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7183855727670512712&hl=en)
Aaaaahhhh, that's good.
So, as far as I know, the problem on the backside are your legs too straight (they don't follow the happening of the curve) and, on the frontside, counter-rotation.
I would start to work on the frontside because the counter-rotation leads you in a wrong position on the backside curve.
Let me see better and I'll be back... I'm running, now, with my job!
:-)

[RicHard]

ummm.... then it would be called something other than "sitting".
I said "almost", something like you are in a "public" toilet and don't want to touch anything! ;-)
So you are bent at the waist but with legs not so bent!
:-)

[RicHard]

Ok guys I give in. The Video is processing on Google so it'll be a bit.
In the meantime here's a pic of me at SES 06 which is pretty much a prime example. Thank you Scott Firestone for the pic (I don't have many)! Wish I had some to be proud of though...Be gentle!

The Picture doesn't look so bad.
I would correct (after your counter rotation on the frontside carve!):
back hand lower, front hand upper and less leaning into the curve with your torso (more upright).
:-)

[Jack Michaud]

I found the videos not so bad. Yes, does not look nice but way better than really sitting on the toilet.

no, this is classic toilet sitting. Very common, nothing that can't be corrected. But the only thing that's missing is the Sunday paper.

[Bobby Buggs]

the only thing that's missing is the Sunday paper.

:lol:

No expert here but it looks like your hips are working against you in the Heel side. That is a classic part of the learning curve. One of the walls people have to break through. It will happen for you soon because you are aware of it.
Not nearly as bad as you made it sound :biggthump

[willywhit]

DSub's bathroom :lol:

[Derf]

I'm no expert like some here, but I concur about the toilet sitting. From what I understand, the counter rotation is a natural reflex because on a heelside, you feel like you are going to fall on you back, so you unconsciously counter rotate to fall on your back and not on your side. So in essence, sitting on the toilet is psychological.

To correct it, do what everyone says (and what I did 3 years ago): reach for your front knee with your rear hand and bend the knees (to absorb bumps). Once you feel comfortable doing this, you won't be (unconsciously) afraid to commit to the turn.

[Kent]

There isn't an easy fix....it's a combination of many things, including your set-up/equipment. But, a fairly typical problem......

1) Yes, you're sitting in the toliet
2) Yes, you're counter-rotating A LOT
3) Yes, Bomber's aren't helping.....as you have little/no vertical motion. I'm not saying you should get rid of them, but understand that a stiff set-up needs a more aggressive riding style.
4) Yes, your wide stance is contributing to #3, #2 and #1. You can ride a wider stance providing you get aggressive with your vertical motion/riding style.
5) Yes, great job posting the video

Flex, flex, flex is probably what I'd yell at you before a run. Angles/knees, hips...the works. Go buy a skateboard and pump that on the flats for a few days...

Speaking of skateboards, can anyone tell me the skatepark in the vid under yours? This is the coolist tri-bowl I've seen.....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9136205063549508968&hl=en

[RDY_2_Carve]

I'm hoping all the forcasted powder will firm up by Sunday so I can practice these tips.

I find it amazing how much your head and hands can really mess things up.

Thanks again everybody.

[RDY_2_Carve]

3) Yes, Bomber's aren't helping.....as you have little/no vertical motion. I'm not saying you should get rid of them, but understand that a stiff set-up needs a more aggressive riding style.

Go buy a skateboard and pump that on the flats for a few days...


Hey Kent thanks for the reply.

Just wanted to say I'm riding F2 Titanflex's in that video not bombers.

Also I have a T-board and a Loaded Pintail but skateboarding is out of the question right now. There's snow and ice everywhere across the whole state.

[tpalka]

Speaking of skateboards, can anyone tell me the skatepark in the vid under yours? This is the coolist tri-bowl I've seen...

McInnis, in San Rafael, CA:
http://www.poolrider.com/content/articles/2.html

It looks awesome: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5872806959208546928

R2C -- nice vid, let me know when you come up to ride in CO again. I'd be happy to share some of the drills people told me about, or just ride,

tom.

[RDY_2_Carve]

R2C -- nice vid, let me know when you come up to ride in CO again. I'd be happy to share some of the drills people told me about, or just ride,

tom.

Hey Tom,

I have three passes to Monarch again this year. I'll shoot you a PM when we decide to head that way. Unlike last year the snow has been great in NM so we haven't really felt the urge to drive up to CO.

On the flip side: Does Monarch give you Angel Fire passes with your Monarch season pass? If so maybe you'll have to come down here? :)

Another big storm coming in soon. Looks like everybody is going to get a piece of this one.

[tpalka]

Sounds great. Yes, actually we do have that reciprocal deal, with most of March blacked out. Also 50% at Alta, three free days at Crested Butte, and the SES... it's been a great season so far, I'll see if we can visit you towards the end of March maybe?

tom.

[RicHard]

Hello again.
I've just seen better your video:
I would focus on two main things.
a) don't counter rotate (shoulder and hips toward the direction of the bindings)... focus on this! Check if your front hand, on the backside, is on his side of the board. Never bring it on the other. As soon as it cross the tip, stop and realize that...ooohhppss, you did it again! ;-)
b) flex more your legs: try also in your room to reach the lowest point going down: you will realize that you can bend them almost the double the amount you do it now.
Just this two things.
Even the first should lead you to improve BOTH frontside and backside.
Later, the sitting on the toilet will smoothly go away...

[Kent]

Hey Kent thanks for the reply.

Just wanted to say I'm riding F2 Titanflex's in that video not bombers.

Also I have a T-board and a Loaded Pintail but skateboarding is out of the question right now. There's snow and ice everywhere across the whole state.


Opps, my bad. Are you riding those in the pix above....the side of the bail looks like a TD. My apologies.....

If this is the case, then there's something in the set-up which is causing you to be pretty stiff. Perhaps soften up the boots.....

[RDY_2_Carve]

Actually Kent the pic is me on TD1 SI's last season at SES so you were right.

The video is from last weekend on the F2's. I wanted to try a "softer" binding since I never rode anything else other than the TD1's. I'm stuck with the Head boots as they're the best fit I've had so far (wide foot). Maybe I should try the orange tongues? Which are softer the yellow or orange? The board is a Hooger Tuned 163 I bought last season. I have a Coiler PR173 sitting in my garage waiting for my technique to catch up a little...

Obviously I'm a very static rider and it's something I need to focus on (being more dynamic that is). I think a combination of getting my knees bent more, keeping my arms on either side w/o letting them cross the board, and looking into my turns will be a good start.

Sometimes it's just hard to concentrate on technique when you're on the slopes...at least for me anyways. But I do want to get better so it's time to step up!

Thanks for all the great replies and not ripping me to shreds. I hope Jack is right about this being an easy fix.

Edit: Kent I forgot to ask you about the stance width. You mentioned in your first reply about me using the wide stance and having to ride more aggressive. So should I try to narrow my stance some since I'm not a super-dynamic rider? Also do you think I could benefit from adding more cant/lift? These new F2's have lots of adjustiblity (compared to the TD1's) and I haven't played with them at all (stock setup was like riding 3/3 I believe).

[Mike T]

I have a Coiler PR173 sitting in my garage waiting for my technique to catch up a little...

Have you tried the Coiler yet?

The reason I ask is, Coilers are notoriously easy to ride as long as they are not too stiff for you. If this was one of Lynn's boards it could well be spot-on for you.

I began a period of rapid breakthroughs when I got my first Coiler GS deck. If you are able to ride it where you've got room to make big turns (preferably on a green slope), a 13-ish sidecut might give you enough time between turns to actually work on the dyanamics. Again, not a coach nor do I play one on TV, just telling you what worked for me. And having seen your video, I was at the exact place where you are now for a good season or two before I started to clean it up. For me, seeing video was the catalyst. I'm sure I still revert to looking like that at times :eek:

[Bobby Buggs]

Have you tried the Coiler yet?

The reason I ask is, Coilers are notoriously easy to ride as long as they are not too stiff for you. I began a period of rapid breakthroughs when I got my first Coiler deck.

I dont know if it was just the time for me or the board but I experienced the same thing after getting my first Coiler.
Im saying it was the Board.

[Mike T]

I dont know if it was just the time for me or the board but I experienced the same thing after getting my first Coiler.
Im saying it was the Board.

IMHO, Easier riding deck = more rider confidence = less distractions from working on technique.

[Bobby Buggs]

Actually Kent the pic is me on TD1 SI's last season at SES so you were right.

The video is from last weekend on the F2's. I wanted to try a "softer" binding since I never rode anything else other than the TD1's. I'm stuck with the Head boots as they're the best fit I've had so far (wide foot). Maybe I should try the orange tongues? Which are softer the yellow or orange? The board is a Hooger Tuned 163 I bought last season. I have a Coiler PR173 sitting in my garage waiting for my technique to catch up a little...

Obviously I'm a very static rider and it's something I need to focus on (being more dynamic that is). I think a combination of getting my knees bent more, keeping my arms on either side w/o letting them cross the board, and looking into my turns will be a good start.

Sometimes it's just hard to concentrate on technique when you're on the slopes...at least for me anyways. But I do want to get better so it's time to step up!

Thanks for all the great replies and not ripping me to shreds. I hope Jack is right about this being an easy fix.

Edit: Kent I forgot to ask you about the stance width. You mentioned in your first reply about me using the wide stance and having to ride more aggressive. So should I try to narrow my stance some since I'm not a super-dynamic rider? Also do you think I could benefit from adding more cant/lift? These new F2's have lots of adjustiblity (compared to the TD1's) and I haven't played with them at all (stock setup was like riding 3/3 I believe).



DUDE!!!!!!! Your gonna freak yer self out with all that stuff. Get on that Coiler with what ever bindings you have and RIDE IT. Stop thinking about SO MUCH. Keep your hands out in front and Look where you want to go. Worry about those 2 things first. Once they become 2nd nature start working on the next things.
2much info with explode your brain. :smashfrea

[willywhit]

DUDE!!!!!!! Your gonna freak yer self out with all that stuff. Get on that Coiler with what ever bindings you have and RIDE IT. Stop thinking about SO MUCH. Keep your hands out in front and Look where you want to go. Worry about those 2 things first. Once they become 2nd nature start working on the next things.
2much info with explode your brain. :smashfreaexactly...go ride alot and ride as hard as you can.
and go fast - alpine is all about fast- scare yourself a little
listen to some manic music on the way up on the chair- get amped
wwbd ? what would bordy do ? he'd go fast
"I wanna go fast!" Ricky Bobby
FKNA!
to quote the great martin drayton:As you can see, slow signs DO NOT apply to hardbooters! Go Billy!

[Jack Michaud]

exactly...go ride alot and ride as hard as you can.
and go fast - alpine is all about fast- scare yourself a little
listen to some manic music on the way up on the chair- get amped
wwbd ? what would bordy do ? he'd go fast


Horrible advice. Good grief. You can't work on technique when you're scared. You slip into self-preservation mode and technique goes out the window. Stick to the steeper greens and easier to moderate blues for now.

[RJ-PS]

Confusion?
I like to concentrate on a general idea instead of trying to fix a number of things at the same time. It helps me on the mountain to enjoy while improving. Maybe it will work for you, maybe not.

Therefore I will reiterate Kent's Number 3 - "but understand that a stiff set-up needs a more aggressive riding style." Your setup may not be too stiff, but you are allowing it to look that way because you aren't working it.

Get aggressive!
Remember you have hips, knees, ankles, feet, toes, etc plenty of axis for movement that all contribute to the turn.

PS yes, toilet sitting, however I didn't think the vid was so bad for someone only out for a few seasons. :biggthump

[willywhit]

I don't think RDY_2_Carve is a newbie that needs to stay on flat trails and make pretty turns. He has a fast motorcycle and knows how to go fast.
My point was, as RJ-PS just stated, Get aggressive!
Coilers and Doneks neeed to be pounced on. Take my advice for what it's worth, I like to go fast and maybe it isn't always pretty but charging down the hill is what I believe alpine is all about.Maybe some would rather focus on perfect technique.Challenging yourself and stepping out of the comfort zone is how you advance(and still work on the little techie stuff in the process) but CHARGE IT ! it's alpine , not ski ballet.Whatever happened to ski ballet? It think that sport is rad.

[RDY_2_Carve]

Have you tried the Coiler yet?

The reason I ask is, Coilers are notoriously easy to ride as long as they are not too stiff for you. If this was one of Lynn's boards it could well be spot-on for you.

I began a period of rapid breakthroughs when I got my first Coiler GS deck. If you are able to ride it where you've got room to make big turns (preferably on a green slope), a 13-ish sidecut might give you enough time between turns to actually work on the dyanamics. Again, not a coach nor do I play one on TV, just telling you what worked for me. And having seen your video, I was at the exact place where you are now for a good season or two before I started to clean it up. For me, seeing video was the catalyst. I'm sure I still revert to looking like that at times :eek:

Yes Mike it's one of Lynn's boards. I'm 5'6" and 165lbs (she's 5'7" and 155lbs). It's got superboard, 180mm waist, 13m SCR, and stiffness index is 5.8. The only reason I bought it was our similiar size/weight and I prefer skinny boards as well (don't mind the 60deg angles).

You could be right though...when I actually had somebody in NM to carve with the guy let me ride his Madd 170 and he said I rode better on that deck than anything he had seen so far. I tried a Madd 180 at SES and I sucked hardcore on it.

As far as the speed thing I think Jack is correct. On my softies I ride very fast (carve trenches in softies too) and my confidence is endless. I ride nowhere near as fast on my plates as I do on my softies and I'm sure it's due to my confidence going down. I'm not really scared I'm just not confident. Oddly enough at lower speeds I'll head straight for the trees and trust my edges that I'll make the turn instead of going squirrel hunting. I can ride fast on plates but I'm not carving at all-just bombing the hill. I might as well be on my softies at that point.

[willywhit]

sometimes I think it's the steep angles that mess with your confidence. Going fast on an 18 cm wide board can be scarey, dangerous and flat out stupid...sometimes.
Since I got the Coiler EX and it's 23 wide and 176 it's like the best of both worlds. Got on the Madd 170 last week after a few runs on the Coiler and I was like-no way, no thanks, not today. Got right back on the Coiler and ...I could go fast again, with confidence.
Getting stressed with the lack of slope time-shake and bake !
Madd 168 BX-that's a board I wanna go fast on...again. :biggthump
America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed. -Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936

[Rob Stevens]

I'll give my support to Willy and RJ-PS.

That video clip helped me alot, to see what you're doing.

Give it a little effort, Man!!!

If you just stand there, all lazy and ****, centrifugal forces will have their way with you, pulling your shoulders outside and back on the heels and into counter-rotation on the toes.

Here's another one (you'll have lots of stuff to try out):

-It's called (for lack of a better name) the "Teapot". When you go onto your heels, think about having your back shouder higher than your front. When you're in the opposite position i.e: front high, back low, your hip will stick out forward, making it look like you're taking a dump.
High back shoulder, low front shoulder will make your hips shift back. The "Teapot" reference comes from the way your front arm will look like the spout (aiming down) and the back will look like the handle (elbow high). I think the E/C boys call this the "Egyptian", like their side-on heiroglyphs. It may make you incline a bit, but we'll take care of that later.

This position is meant to get you in a more aggressive position, leading with your head, getting your upper body tilted into the direction you're going, rather than away from it. The side benefit is, through this technique, your style will improve because you won't be sitting and ****ting anymore.

On the toes, keep looking to the side after you come out of the apex. Your lazy style is letting your upper body open up to the fall line, making you counter rotate. This is a real "get aggressive" moment. See your target (the trees at the side) and this should help you to close your shoulder, away from the fall line a bit more, at the bottom of the turn.

I like Willys advice, insomuch as you need to give'r some more. I will repeat that you look really lazy when you're riding. I can see what Jack is saying about being scared making you revert to your old ways, but you should try harder on the slopes you're used to.

Jack... Buddy... This "Horrible advice" thing is taking me back to my come apart with you over your comment to me that what I was talking about was "Utter nonsense". Maybe so, but you sure do get a guys back up when you roast him like that. There was alot of good in Willys post. In writing this, though, I guess I am being pretty PC, so flame away, Brother.

[Neil Gendzwill]

+1 on most of the technical advice given here, especially bending the knees and the rotation issues.

I wouldn't scare myself, but a little more speed might help you be more dynamic.

[willywhit]

no need for flames, this snow drought is making more than a few of us "edgey", myself included. Best techie tip I ever got was Gilmour and his little handbag analogy, square it up. I do tend to flail a bit and really do need more work on technique. Jack is the man when it comes to technique advice. In that sense, I'm lazy. I just wanna go fast and hopefully somebuddy notices and thinks that the hard boot railing looks cool. I did get a comment from the liftie chick at gunstock last week.Came ripping down the flat groomer towards the lift, waaay too fast (nobody around tho) big loooong toeside leaning back(like surfers do, coming out of the barrel, standing straight up )Man, it just felt soooooo good :p
I wish I could find a better pic to describe the feeling :1luvu:

[Rob Stevens]

Yeah, Jack's on it.

[Mike T]

Yes Mike it's one of Lynn's boards. I'm 5'6" and 165lbs (she's 5'7" and 155lbs). It's got superboard, 180mm waist, 13m SCR, and stiffness index is 5.8. The only reason I bought it was our similiar size/weight and I prefer skinny boards as well (don't mind the 60deg angles).

You could be right though...when I actually had somebody in NM to carve with the guy let me ride his Madd 170 and he said I rode better on that deck than anything he had seen so far. I tried a Madd 180 at SES and I sucked hardcore on it.


Sounds awesome. I just see so many similarities between your riding now (and at SES) and mine 2 - 3 years ago, and think that what helped me will help you too. If I remember when you joined BOL right, means you are progressing faster than I did :biggthump

[pebu]

I wish I could find a better pic to describe the feeling :1luvu:

Try this:
http://www.vostokstation.com.au/images/aircraft/F22_banking_sml.jpg

[RicHard]

and go fast
What a suggestion... There's no worse way to get out of a carve if you are not a good carver than going too fast.
Maybe you can go so fast if you've got a 15m radius board/strong legs/good technique. But with a slalom board you cannot go simply "fast": you have to "move yourself quickly", not "going fast".
:-\

[Kent]

Edit: Kent I forgot to ask you about the stance width. You mentioned in your first reply about me using the wide stance and having to ride more aggressive. So should I try to narrow my stance some since I'm not a super-dynamic rider? Also do you think I could benefit from adding more cant/lift? These new F2's have lots of adjustiblity (compared to the TD1's) and I haven't played with them at all (stock setup was like riding 3/3 I believe).


Too tough of question to answer on a message board. Are you going to SES? I'd start FLAT and then make adjustments as needed. Too many people start with a monkey set-up only to complicate it further with adjustments. Width is driven by board length (characteristics), body type/size, bindings, boots, cant needed, etc. But, assuming you need to start somewhere and you're b/w 5'9" and 6'1", perhaps 19.5 to 19.75....although I really don't feel comfortable throwing out those numbers w/o knowing more info.

To get back to your "style", I'd recommend tossing on the board in your living room and doing some work. Clamp in, rock back and forth, get used to hanging out on the board. After 5 mins of that, "twist" your board (front toe down / rear toe up) and get used to being able the work the work. Next, bent your ankles, knees and hips. If you can't bend without tipping over, there's a disconnect b/w your power and your balance. Keep working on it. Get low....try to emmulate the stance you would like to ride. Yep...you'll look like a complete dork, but it works. Visualize and then hit the slope to execute. I think what you'll learn in the living room is:

1) rear foot bend is VERY important
2) front foot balance is key
3) hip flexibility is important

Another drill is to slight edge your board (in your living room). On your heelsides, I'm guess you'll sit in the toliet again. Don't despair.....push your front lower leg to the "10:00" position and keeping pushing in order for it to edge. You need to drive toward 10:00 with your hips/lower leg rather than twisting couter in order to set the edge.

I really think you'll understand why you have a problem once you clamp in on the carpet and try the edge your board.....

[Jack Michaud]

Willy, my apologies for the rude tone. Can you tell I haven't ridden yet this season? However, everything I know about snowboarding tells me the last thing he needs to do is go any faster.

Rob, I searched on "utter nonsense", and found the post. That comment was intended for CASI, not you, but I see how it may have come across that way. I still think setting up never-evers duck is ridiculous. Someone made the point that being able to ride switch is a necessity in freestyle snowboarding - true, but first you have to learn how to turn (much to the surprise of any park rats reading this), and a duck stance doesn't help that at all.

[willywhit]

What a suggestion... There's no worse way to get out of a carve if you are not a good carver than going too fast.
Maybe you can go so fast if you've got a 15m radius board/strong legs/good technique. But with a slalom board you cannot go simply "fast": you have to "move yourself quickly", not "going fast".
:-\
OK, group hug and let's move on.
I went back and looked at the video from Angel Fire again and I really don't see a novice carver here.The turns looks basically decent but I really think he needs to "kick it up a notch".
Those aren't little slalom turns, they're slow GS turns on a hill that won't get you out of 2nd gear unless you head down the fall line a bit more.If you're confident on a softie setup, then that Donek should be real friendly to cross over too.

[Jack Michaud]

I went back and looked at the video from Angel Fire again and I really don't see a novice carver here.

Sorry, but I do. Advanced novice.

There's definitely potential though. There's almost no wasted motion, and a sense of grace. And I've seen plenty of people who should just stick to softies. Or skis.

[willywhit]

take a quick look at the bunny buster vids of JG. Imagine these turns in your head and add a squirt of adrenaline and it just might take things to the next level :rolleyes:
http://www.wendychao.com/ski/easter/

where's that Sunapee vid of JG that Bob Lawliss shot ?
it's another good example.

EDIT: OK, an even better example (thanks T)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFf0vr6dPs

Buggs kickin' it at the Butte. Nothing crazy, just charging it a bit more. Here's more BAD advice, maybe try breaking the edge loose a little and slide it surfy(esp on the heelsides) it'll feel more like your softie ride.
Again, not professional advice, just what works for me.

:eplus2: that video just gets me so amped to ride :D

EDITEDIT: just be careful, crashing hard sucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CEVSJGVWwI&mode=related&search=

[willywhit]

"if everything is under control you're going to slow" - Ralph Castelberg

[John Gilmour]

you have to "throw it down"
like throw yourself down INTO the snow to get aggressive...yet carve to catch yourself just BEFORE you hit to make maximum edge pressure. you shouldn't have to touch the snow.


Don't let just gravity propoel you... use the loaded board flex and huck yourself into it...almost like front flip... you have to hurtle yorself down.. and the steeper the more agressive and committed..and cooler it feels. ...and don't just '''lean" like i do in that super bunny vid...instead huck yorself towards a spot to the side of your board and slightly in front of your front binding. as if you are high diving into that tiny spot.
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Suzuki Gt750 History (http://www.suzuki-tech.com/wiki/Suzuki_GT750)