how fast can u go??

[tigger]

set the record!!!!!!!!
do u know these speed traps in some skiingresorts? where you can pick up speed on a closed lane of the slope an your speed is shown on a display.
i had some fun there, but couldnt get my speed over 70 kmh, but as the slope wasnt very steep, and it was much to warm, i t:p
i think i already was somewhere arond 90kmh (just felt like compared to the 70 kmh measured and the 85 kmh i expierienced on my roadbike) but there is still a huge gap to the guy who went 220 kmh :eek: , correct me if not!
where is your highspeed? any serious informations?how does it feel above 100 kmh?
phil

ps. sorry, i dont know how to calculate with miles and kmh, but i ll find out!

[Stan]

... I know that the mountain where I usually ride (Hunter Mtn, NY) has a "speed weekend" - where they have what you called a "speed trap". The fastest snowboarder I saw there was doing somewhere around 73 MPH (1 mile = 1.609 KM) or about 177 KMH. 220 kmh - that's probably on skis . . . :)

I never bothered to find out how fast I'm going in terms of miles or kilometers because my only concern is that I go fast enough to scare myself enough to get the adrenaline pumping . . . :)

Cheers,

Stan

[BBQ Chef]

Stan, I think your math is a little bit off. 177 kilometers/hr is 109 mph. 73 mph is 117 kilometers per hour.

[NMU Alpine Boarder]

No, actually the 220 KPH speed wasw set on a snowboard. I don't know who, when, or where, but iff you ever see the description for a Volkl Renn Tiger, it'll say "The only snoboard ridden to the amazing speed of 125 MPH".

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by NMU Alpine Boarder
No, actually the 220 KPH speed wasw set on a snowboard. I don't know who, when, or where, but iff you ever see the description for a Volkl Renn Tiger, it'll say "The only snoboard ridden to the amazing speed of 125 MPH".
220 kph is 137.5 mph. 125 mph is 200 kph.

I suspect most of us are going slower than we think we are. I'd bet I've never been over 70 kph (~44 mph), and I blow by most everybody on the hill.

[Vahur]

If we talking about carved turns, then according to graph in this article (http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/physics.cfm) (BTW, Jack? Fin? this article suffered from conversion, some text is duplicated) I can make max. ca. 11 m/s (ca. 40 km/h or 24.5 mph) on carved turns, on 16 m sidecut board max. speed would be 15 m/s. Of course going straight could result in bigger speeds, but this is not the intended way of board's usage :)
BTW, Maximum speed on board is AFAIK little above 200 km/h (or 125 mph) I found one article http://www.bulgariaski.com/snowboarding.shtml) about it, perhaps there is new record done in meanwhile, but I don't think, that it would be much higher anyway.

[Mellow Yellow]

I AM NOT MAKING A PROMISE..!

but...

I may be able to get my hands on one....I'll post on this thread if I am able to obtain one.....

[m.fi]

GPS units can work in place of a radar gun, just strap it on the back of your helmet.

[Randy S.]

I have a radar gun. I bought it last season for the exact purpose this thread is exploring. Unfortunately we didn't get much of a chance to really use it in a controlled environment. I did get to 61mph on an open trail on my 163 RT SL board. I know I've gone faster than that. A 163 gets a little squirrelly at 60mph.

Ironically I was just coming over here to post a question about whether anyone knows of a place for info on Speed Snowboarding set up and equipment. I have a 210 Donek on the way, but I'm wondering what kind of angles people run when trying to do nothing but go straight and push the envelope. Any experience out there?

I'd be willing to loan my Radar gun for ECES if you want. You can buy a decent one online pretty cheap. Also, a friend who is into Speed Skiing and lives in Truckee was planning to set up a speed course at Northstar this season. If we get it set up, I'll post something here. He's friendly with the Race Director who said we could do it (the challenge might be finding the right place on the hill for it).

Les Arcs in France and Sun Peaks in BC have events. However, the one at Sun Peaks appears to be open only to skiers, not snowboarders.

Anyone who wants to come to Alpine Meadows this winter can track me down. I'll always have the radar gun in my equipment bag and be willing to have a go at speed. There are a couple of runs that work well for early morning speed trials, as long as we have someone to hold the gun and someone to discourage skiers from cutting us off for a few seconds.

If you have info on equipment and setup, please post. I know that pros wear rubberized suits and farings. I don't know how appropriate fairings would be on a snowboard. Also, I don't want to invest in one of those crazy helmets. I have a full face and it will have to do.

[ARCrider]

I managed to go 99.1 kph with my wife on our tandem bicycle this summer. Towing a trailer too. Upsalquitch hill in New Brunswick on our way to Gaspe. Five kilometer descent starting with 6% grade steepening to 12% at bottom. spooky fast!
On a board I would guess I've been up to 60 or 70k but a radar gun might prove me wrong.

[bobdea]

I would guess on snow it would be in the high sixties
when I was about 12 me and a couple friends would laydown on our skate decks and go down a hill in our town its amazing none of us got hurt one day a guy that was behind in a car said that the slowest of us was going a little over 40
of course we had no helmets or anything like that
on this same hill a kid busted his hip when he tried to make the corner at the bottom of the hill onto another road missed it and hit the curb flew about 20 ft hitting the side of a building

[Baka Dasai]

Just to put that 220 km/h top speed in perspective, a skydiver's terminal velocity (assuming a spread-eagled position with parachute closed) is about <a href="http://hypertextbook.com/facts/JianHuang.shtml">190 km/h to 200 km/h</a>.

Snowboarding faster than free-fall!

[GeoffV]

I might be able to borrow one from a friend for ECES

Geoff

[Pre School Rider]

The tool has to be one of the 1989-90 Burton LongComp Safari's.They had beveled bases/edges at the tip and tail to reduce 'edge snag',dual cambered areas to allow for front/rear foot deflection and weight shifts,and a quadratic sidecut that my Dad (an Engineer by trade) figured on being in the 22M - 24M arena when used 'in full',and somewhere around 40M if lightly pressured at the tip/tail.They also boasted Graphite bases,and plenty of width,so very little pressure was needed over a large but slick surface.I actually got used to riding mine at Okemo at speeds easily in the low 60's (that's MPH,not KPH) after owning it a few years. I've made the top-to-bottom run in under 2 minutes there with the 205. However,all that those boards were could easily be out done by a number of companies that make boards in the over-180cm class. The Volkl that was used for the record was a RennTiger GS,so go figure that IF another company that made bigger,more stable boards could figure out the dampening needed,tuning requirements,get a fast base,and had a rider comfy with haulin' cookies (JG? Are you seeing this?) ,the current record could be eclipsed. Aero is the "other" big factor here. Take a good long look at Downhill Skateboarding,where Jeans and a leather jacket have given way to Ledingham Helmets and Speed Suits made of Kevlar and leather.The intent is clear,push the air aside CLEANLY,then deal with turns later. I think it can indeed be done,and I'll even offer this tidbit; A 'famous Ski Racer' did some wind-tunnel tests awhile back,and came up with a new Tuck for snowboarders (and by happy coincidence,Skateboarders,too) that puts the "Hut" tuck outa the picture. If I wasn't married,heck I'd go try,but my wife would KILL Me for it!

[tigger]

hy guys, funny discussion:p
i found the world record guy now to, his name is darren powell and he is an aussie! he went 202 kmh or 126 miles in les arcs, thats where those crazy guys from HARD ATTACK tried to kill themselves.
speed kicks
philipp
ps you gotto post the results of the radar pistol!!!!:D

[Randy S.]

PSR,

Where can I find a picture/video of that tuck? I'm also curious about what you think of possible binding angles/cants for such a pursuit.

When I lived in France, we had a KL (stands for Kilometre Lancee ~ flying kilometer) course there. Snowboarding was new at the time ('86) so none of the existing boards were useful. However, a guy who worked in the bar with me got ahold of a 240cm monoski. He managed to strap himself to it in a snowboard configuration, rather than mono. Things went reasonably well for the first couple hundred meters. Then wind got under the board and it started bouncing back and forth (side to side). He crashed through the timing lights at about 120kph! He showed up in the bar that night with his shoulder in a sling and burns on his backside. Pretty memorable.

I don't really want to invest in a rubberized suit and all the faring crap for this silly pursuit. However, I do have a DH race suit and full-face helmet so I'm game to try some runs. Alpine Meadows, where I ride regularly, grooms a section of a bowl periodically for avy prevention. It takes 2 winch-cats to do it. When they are done, it is the perfect KL track. Only challeng is the run-out has some undulations in it and people will be coming down the run-out. I think it is do-able though. I just need enough of a support team to run interference on the traffic and someone to hold the gun. As it happens, the run is right next to the Summit 6-pak lift so I'll have lots of witnesses to my folly. Hopefully my kids won't be on the lift when I try it. My 6-year old daughter will be asking when she can try (I can hear it now).

Anyway, let me know your thoughts on the angles/cant thing and whether you can point me to pix of the tuck, or just a good description. I need to experiment a bit with setup. I find it hard to get a setup that gives me totally neutral weight distribution in full tuck. It is much easier to be turning slightly one way or the other when in a tuck.

[Marker]

Originally posted by Baka Dasai
Just to put that 220 km/h top speed in perspective, a skydiver's terminal velocity (assuming a spread-eagled position with parachute closed) is about <a href="http://hypertextbook.com/facts/JianHuang.shtml">190 km/h to 200 km/h</a>.

Snowboarding faster than free-fall!

Well, not quite. The numbers that you cite in your post require a lot of qualification. Without getting into it, the top speed of a skydiver (in competition) to date, is 494.37km/h.

However, the speed I just gave does not include training jumps made by sport skydivers or anything that the military has tried. In the 60s, the US military dropped a man from a weather balloon (102, 800 feet) and his body came close to breaking the speed of sound at 614 MILES per hour!

Still, 220km/h on a board is damn fast!

[NateW]

If memory serves, Randy clocked me at 51 when I visited Tahoe last year. I don't think I've ever been over 50 other than that run... and probably not over 40.

I suspect my usual 'fast' cruising runs are about 25 or so, perhaps less, yet still it's very rare that people pass me on the slope. It's kinda funny how fast 50 feels on a board, compared to, for example, a motorcycle.

When I did slalom racing I was in the middle of the pack on a board, and not very below the top on skis, but I'm sure even the fastest guys were well under 25. GS, SG, or DH racing would surely be a lot faster though.

[tigger]

looks fast!!!

[jdgang]

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/1-24-2005-64744.asp

Makes me chuckle when I read this kinda stuff.

Read the article this part was the best IMHO

Alpine snowboarding is generally done on hard packed snow or groomed runs. Hard packed snow usually isn't good for snowboarding but is exceptional for high speeds, the heart of alpine snowboarding. With other styles of snowboards maneuverability is impossible on this type of terrain. Thanks to the aggressiveness of the edge of the alpine snowboard, fast, snappy control is the least of your problems.

[skategoat]

Clocked at Mount St. Louis/Moonstone (a dinky little Ontario hill), tucking it on an intermediate run. Kind of surprised me. I didn't think I was going that fast. It didn't feel that scarey or uncomfortable. On non-speed runs, I was averaging 60km/h. Again, surprising.

The tool in question was a Coiler Racecarve 174 and it was super stable. A buddy of mine tried the same run on a Hot Blast 185 and said it felt squirrelly. He got up to about 75km/h.

[Jim Callen]

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/1-24-2005-64744.asp

Wow, someone needs to go back to highschool and learn how to write.

[skategoat]

Did you read this part:

"Traditionally the front foot should be set at about +70' and the rear foot at about +35'. "

Can you imagine trying to run at those angles? I think I'd dislocate my hip on the first heelside.

[Linus]

Clocked at Mount St. Louis/Moonstone (a dinky little Ontario hill), tucking it on an intermediate run. Kind of surprised me. I didn't think I was going that fast. It didn't feel that scarey or uncomfortable. On non-speed runs, I was averaging 60km/h. Again, surprising.

The tool in question was a Coiler Racecarve 174 and it was super stable. A buddy of mine tried the same run on a Hot Blast 185 and said it felt squirrelly. He got up to about 75km/h.
Wow at MSLM??? :eek: :eek: That's just scary....

[tex1230]

did you read the other articles? check the "blunt nose slide" and "half pipe" ones... It would be sad if i wasn't so hilarious

[skategoat]

Linus:

It was mid-week and the run was empty. The only hazard was the lift towers. I stayed well away from those. And, as you know the runs at MSLM are straight. No danger of going into the trees. All in all, it's a pretty good place to do speed runs. That is, when the patrollers aren't watching.

Henry

[Linus]

All in all, it's a pretty good place to do speed runs. That is, when the patrollers aren't watching.

Henry
Last season, I was at Bluemountain with my friends doing some speed runs until a patroller came and cut my ticket off. :o :o :o :mad: :mad: :mad:

[carvedog]

I was clocked with radar on a downhill course at 68 mph. That was with a check turn thrown in at the top of the face. The next run I went faster ( no check turn) but the gun wasnt there then. I still nearly pissed myself both times. This was on a Factory Prime 173. It felt about like a 135 as I passed the halfway mark on the face. At the bottom it felt like I didn't have a snowboard on at all. There was a pretty good roll in the runout that I never even felt at the half speed course inspection run.

I straight lined one of the bowls on a powder day with lots of light freshie and I know I came close to the 50 to 55 range. I usually turn lots in powder but the Frontier was flowing and so was I, so i kind of didn't turn.

For those speed demons out there, Sun Valley has several areas where there is no speed enforcement at all. If you ski in control and don't endanger anyone you can go as fast as you want. These are not the green runs.

Jerry

[Allee]

"In the 60s, the US military dropped a man from a weather balloon (102, 800 feet) and his body came close to breaking the speed of sound at 614 MILES per hour!"

I saw the vid of that, and it was one of the craziest things I've ever seen. The guy just up and jumped off into the stratosphere!

[skategoat]

Last season, I was at Bluemountain with my friends doing some speed runs until a patroller came and cut my ticket off. :o :o :o :mad: :mad: :mad:

That's cause you're a young punk. The patrollers tend to leave us greybeards alone.

[philw]

looks fast!!!
Deja Vue all over again here. That image doesn't look fast, it looks Photoshopped. Badly. The way the motion blue extends in front of his leading hand is kind of odd, don't you think? Funny how the blur hits his body bit not his helmet. Perhaps they're moving independently.

Here's one from an FIS competition last year:
http://www.wigglesworld.klebos.com/sports/speed/images/A19S21122.jpg
Looking at that he's just starting his run, hence the stance is open and the tip of the board isn't contacting the snow. Bindings are releasable, by FIS rules. The same rules prevent you riding the full course on consumer gear: don't even think about it.

GPS readings: I think imperialist bombs are guided by slightly higher specification systems. Consumer devices are innaccurate over the short term.

In practice watching speed snowboarding is awesome in the real meaning of the word. Having spent some time shooting this, I don't believe anyone on any piste anywhere could possibly come even close to the speeds run by these guys. The track is steeper than any piste, it's iced up and prepared in fine detail. It's straight, which is just as well as you steer with your fingers. The boards are dedicated; the crash barriers are huge; there are no people within a large radius.

Depending on the course and ability, speeds are anything from about 100km/h to 250km/h maximum. The maximum is an FIS rule: technically you could go faster with steeper/ longer courses, but that's not the way the sport is going. The timed section is 100m long. The run-out is the major part of the course. You're not even allowed to stand up before a certain point at the bottom of the course.

Sun Peaks is the only place I know of over there which does speed, but they don't allow snowboarding if I remember correctly. Something to do with the piste area not being big enough to do it safely.

Snowboarding just feels faster than it is.

[Mike Tokar]

I did the speed weekend at Hunter Mtn, NY that Stan mentioned, and took 3rd place with 66mph on a coiler 196 in '03 (also did 56mph on my mtn bike that same day, 3rd place again, 2nd loser behind the same 2 guys). The hill they ran the race on was a little wimpy thing toward the bottom of the mtn, but they made a nice little starting mound to give you a boost.

The rules don't allow you to turn in the course, and even though the board has a 7mm taper and a 17+m sidecut radius, it still feels like it wants to hook up when you ride it flat.

As for stance angles, I'd keep them to what you find most stable for you. I ride with both angles the same, and with the angle dictated by the board width.

66mph didn't feel that scary, but it would be a lot more stable if you were allowed to just cruise down a few steep headwalls in succession and be on one edge or another. I think I could go faster more securely that way, but then again it could just feel faster because you'd feel some G's even if you're only making shallow turns.

PSR - please post some details on the tuck! I've experimented with the basic hut tuck, and an 'asym' tuck with the lead hand on the lead leg and trail hand tucked behind, as well as both hands forward like the start of the 'swing-wing' fighter drill you taught me. I think that tuck is probably more important than wax for going fast, so please share the wisdom!

Please bring the radar gun to ECES!!!! If we can get a carvers only trail, maybe we can get everybody to get the feel of how fast they're going when they just ride normally. I'd be wary of trying to pull off a real speed race scenario safely. It takes slope control and course prep that would take away from some of the fun.

See you at Stratton on the 25th!!!

MT

[FTA2R]

other than standing up / extending hands to maximize air resistance, how do you stop when going 55 mph +(assume you have maybe a few hundred feet). I personally would be scared of trying to skid stop b/c catching an edge at the speed could be very dangerous.


ps what up PSR!



Barry

[Gleb]

Speed is what really made me want to go into alpine boarding. When i gain some experience, I will try for some of those speeds.

For now, my fastest on skis is near 55. nothing special but fun nonetheless.

[NateW]

I suppose the ideal location would have an uphill slope behind the speed trap, so you could just coast up the other side to get your speed down.

When I did my 51mph run for Randy's radar at Northstar, I stood up briefly then had to put the board sideways to shed speed. I think all of us did, as the runout zone wasn't very long, and led into another steeper section and/or another trail. None of us fell, but at least in my case the skidding resulted in an ice blast to my face that was still quite unpleasant.

[Gleb]

At Sunday River, the run "White Heat" would be perfect for a speed trial. That is only if you have the balls to do it. Ridiculous.

[Ironduck]

Radar works pretty well for speed measurement but my experience with it is that it is no fun when what ever you are measuring is hurtling at you, out of control, at 50+... I have had a hard time convincing people that they don't need to risk their life and mine by running too close to the gun to be sure the speed is measured. A good gun will pick up a person on a snowboard 1/8 mile or more away.
A couple of alternatives: A GPS on the board (or rider) alleviates the need to have anyone in the line of fire and it lets the rider pick when and where he wants to go fast. If you are using radar, it works just as well from behind as in front. If you are going to be in front then a tree in front of you might be a good idea. Or mark a course that keeps the measurement guy at a safe distance. A voice recorder or video camera is handy for recording the speed data.

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Bob

[skategoat]

GPS is the way to go. I stick my little unit in the radio pocket on the sleeve of my shell and it gets perfect reception.

Someone doubted GPS accuracy but I'm willing to bet it's as accurate as a consumer level radar gun. Here's a study that backs that up:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15519597&dopt=Abstract

[Neil Gendzwill]

That study looked at people on level tracks. How well does it work when the slope is steep?

[willywhit]

http://www.ragged-mt.com/ski/downhill.htm

[~tb]

That study looked at people on level tracks. How well does it work when the slope is steep?


To Echo Neil's post. . . I dont think that GPS takes change in elevation into account in speed very well. I could be wrong. Anyone (jack, bob. . . gadget geeks of the world) have better info on this?

[skategoat]

GPS is aware of elevation. I can't imagine it's difficult to program the software to take change of elevation into account when calculating speed. It's simple geometry.

If I'm wrong, and GPS assumes that everything is flat, then your actual downhill speed is faster than the indicated speed. I think.

[gmarsden]

GPS's generally only output course and speed. By definition this is in
a locally level (horizontal) plain. The GPS itself works in 3-D space
and will be well aware internally of the vertical component of your velocity. If it outputs
it at all, it would be a separate message or displayed variable. If it is available
you could RSS (sqrt of the sum of the squares) of the speed and vertical
velocity to get your true speed. Otherwise divide the displayed horizontal speed by
the cosine of the slope angle to get your actual speed.

- Greg

[Neil Gendzwill]

I believe Garmin makes one model with a built-in altimeter that does all this math for you, may be wrong.

[kjl]

Did you read this part:

"Traditionally the front foot should be set at about +70' and the rear foot at about +35'. "

Can you imagine trying to run at those angles? I think I'd dislocate my hip on the first heelside.


Doesn't Jeorg (pureboarding) ride angles something like that? Maybe not ~70 up front but certainly 55+ and I think the back foot is ~30

[Ironduck]

The GPS measures speed from a doppler calculation on the signals it is getting from satellites seen from many angles. These satellite speeds are on the order of 5,000 mph and the GPS can measure speed with an accuracy of 0.2 mph or better. If it is smart enough to do that, it should have little difficulty dealing with a little elevation change.

Bob Dill

[Gleb]

I'm almost 100% sure that most modern midgrade gps units take elevation into consideration, especially waas enabled ones. We should have a test and compare.

[Jim]

I noticed that my 4 year old Garmin (sold last year) searched for exact elevation for several minutes while resting on a table.

[Linus]

Doesn't Jeorg (pureboarding) ride angles something like that? Maybe not ~70 up front but certainly 55+ and I think the back foot is ~30

He sets his binding angles f:53 r: 20+

[philw]

The FIS rules are publically available (google...). In summary from what I remember they just use optical timing devices 100m apart. So there's a ruin down, where the riders accellerate, and they can see the timed section ahead (marked by a line in the snow and little break-away flags). No one's within 300 meters of it in any direction. They hit the timed section as fast as they can, then there's a middle section where the track flattens out, but they're not allowed to stand up. Once they pass another line in the snow it's judged to be safe to stand up, so they stand up slowly and then use air resistance to slow down. Finally they stick one or two big skids in. I saw someone crash down in thisi decelleration zone and they took out most of the [very large inflatable] course padding - even when they're doing to relatively slow speeds they're still going like stink.

GPS: again, google for it. The problem isn't particularly the ability to catpure four dimensions [sic], although the absolute accuracy varies depending on what you can see. From GPS machines I've worked with, they don't capture cooked data points that often; their averages can be taken over a relatively small number of points; and they severely interpolate (depending on which specific device you're using). Normally that's not a problem, but occasionally you will find the device "ringing" as you turn a corner, or coming up with a speed which you know you, or your vehicle, isn't capable of.