Are Ice-coasters Better riders ?

[Dave ESPI]

Ok, I'm going to get lots of Hate-mail for this question, but I'm curious of eastcoast riders are better than those from the west because of what we learn to ride in..... which is basicly the worst possible **** that we dare blast down without any concern.

Lastyear I was freeriding while not in lesson and chatted with some people from the midwest, and all they did was bitch about the conditions, and yet it actualy was one of the nicest days of conditions from lastyear.

Does this give us eastcoasters an advantage and make us better riders ?

[bobdea]

I've seen allot of east coast boys get to CO and go off the wall due to not having to worry about shattering bones when landing, one kid who was a alright rider at home went to CO for a week and by the end was having us tow him into a jump @ about 35 mph with a rather flat but deep landing, going huge
"I can do anything in this stuff because no matter how bad I **** it up I can't get hurt"
I'd say the point is arguable with alpine though, that said, on the bad days at steamboat I was fine when no one else could hack it, not a better rider really but I could handle conditions that the locals could not.

[LeeW]

i would think riding on ice so espeically help the skill level on riding on -ALL- type of terrain.

[philw]

[...] but I'm curious of eastcoast riders are better than those from the west because of what we learn to ride in..... which is basicly the worst possible **** that we dare blast down without any concern. [...]
Does this give us eastcoasters an advantage and make us better riders ?

I think it's the rider that matters, especially if you practice long enough. I ride with people from all over the place with all sorts of different backgrounds - they can all ride well, albeit with different styles.


That said, when I was heli-boarding in BC in the late 80s some of the locals asked me where I learned to ride "that well". I was quite happy to tell them that I learned in Manchester (England) on plastic snow. There are some dry slopes on the East Coast - Ipswich I think has one. But really it doesn't matter where the slope is as they're all basically the same. There are different types of artificial surface these days, and of course we've the indoor ice palaces like Cas Vegas and Xscape.

Does it give me an advantage? Well you need good basic technique to ride plastic: ride that and you can ride ice and snow trivially, plus crashing and burning on plastic is much more damaging than any snow crash.

I think the main advantage of learning on crappy slopes is that there's not a lot to distract you from technique if you've just got a little hill to play on. Let someone loose in snowbird and once they can ride a little bit they may go play before they've actually got good technique. It's all good though..

[tilledog]

I once asked Jeff Archibald if " to be a good racer, it's probably best to be able to carve on steep ice, right? "

He laughed, and said "Yea"

[skategoat]

Ice? I prefer the term "packed powder".

I ride with a couple of BC guys every winter and I have to explain ice to them. "It's like the stuff you put in drinks". One of them has never ridden east of the Rockies and can't believe we actually get that kind of condition.

My first ever trip out west was to Whistler in the 80s. We got a big dump and I couldn't believe how you could just fly through the bumps and over cornices without a care. In the East, there were many days that ended early for me with something broken - glasses, skiis, boots. Unforgiving is the word.

[jnshapiro]

Argh. Boilerplate, and that lovely blue field of "packed powder." Ah, the memories.

I learned to ride on those conditions. Proper technique is important. Which translates real well to west coast conditions.

I'd say that you learn good technique. Good technique makes for a better rider than bad technique and hero snow.

[outsider]

i believe there is a saying in the racing world-- when the ice comes up the west goes down.

learning to ride in wisconsin provides a similar experience, and i especially like that blown snow that sits in about 2 or 3 degree cold for a few days...

i find that when i have a race in soft/fresh snow i cant hold up to the western riders, but as soon as the course hardens up i can usually hack it pretty well.

I like ice-- no suprises, always the same hard as rock surface to tear up.




PS: It's snowing in Tahoe right now... :biggthump

[willywhit]

most definately. Case in point, last year I had 2 free tix for sugarbush to use up.My buddy CJ and I ride 4 hours up and the mountain is GLAZED. I'm in my usual hardboots and PureCarve, nice and sharp.He's on a twintip, softies,dull edges.He bitches and bitches. Aspen 2 weeks earlier was powder, trees blab blah blah THIS SUCKS. I'm still having fun, kinda.
I'm waiting at the mid mt lift for CJ, watching him come down and he gets spun sideways on a slab of ice, hooks his toe side and SLAMS, SOOOO HARD, rapping the back of his head off some really hard "snow" with no helmet on.
Take my board off, run up the hill and he's almost puking, face down and breathing hard.(this guy is an ex Navy Seal, he's pretty tough)
Patrol shows up, head to toe, he's not in good shape, they say get the sled, he says no.It takes him awhile to get it together to ride down and says" I'm done" but it's like 10-11 am. You go ride, I'm taking a nap. C'mon tough guy, let's ride.
We drive over to the other side of Sugarbush and the snow is better, sun is coming out and he's willing to try it again.The whole time he's jabbering about Aspen, he's a soul rider and wants to ride in the woods and I'm just biting my lip.I ended up just "losing" him and his psycho babble. Ended up ripping around and actually making some fun turns on the east coast boilerplate on sharp edges.
Moral of the story, always wear a helmet and don't pretend you're in Aspen when you're really on a hockey rink with vertical.
ICE COAST ! REPRESENT !
this is CJ on the water, much safer. :biggthump he was jumping OVER the 20' Yamaha jetboat ! SICK !

[Allee]

Ice scares the daylights out of me. I'll cry and go home before I ride on ice. Even if I hit some of that hard scraped off stuff I just freak right out.

Sometimes it's nice to be a girl.

[jnshapiro]

Thread drift warning...


I'm waiting at the mid mt lift for CJ, watching him come down and he gets spun sideways on a slab of ice, hooks his toe side and SLAMS, SOOOO HARD, rapping the back of his head off some really hard "snow" with no helmet on.

I did something similar, but at Snowbird in Utah on reasonable snow. Knocked myself out briefly. Came to and saw ski patrol looking down at me. They went through some diagnosis and pronounced me fit.

Went to the bottom and into the first shop I saw and bought a helmet. Been riding with one ever since. Oh, this happened in '95.

[Frank Morales]

You guys must have sharp edges.

[crucible]

Out here in the West, we can always tell who cut their chops on East Coast "packed powder", even before they strap on their boards.

On a good dump day, the East Coast ice riders are the only ones exhibiting any kind of control on the drive up to Whistler.....

Why? Because they drive in snow and slushy conditions all winter- they know how to drive in this **** - lower speeds, easy throttle and braking and look ahead for the black ice.

When it turns slushy then icy, with limited visibility, the local weekend warriors and tourists wimp out after two or three hours, then retire to the bar....

EC rippers are loving it - boosting down runs and rollers like it's no biggie, especiallly if they're from Quebec.

Of course I'm a little bit biased, even though I think of myself as a local, having lived and snowboarded out West for the past 20 years, I cut my teeth on a Burton Performer in Wildcat Mountain NH, in 1985.

George

[Frank Morales]

1-3 and a pocket file?

[Jim Callen]

Well, I definitely think East coasters are better riders on hard stuff. I grew up in NY, and rode a little hill an hour from my house, and was stoked to do it. Come early season out here, and the snow's still better than back east and everyone bitches and moans, while I'm just stoked to getout on the hill.

Now when it comes to powder, things are a bit different. Same with trees. None of that stuff back east, for the most part. I had to relearn everything when I got out here in terms of not pressuring too hard in soft snow, or how to navigate and predict pow.

[bobdea]

no trees in the east?
I've not found any inbounds glades in the west that I thought were tight, at steamboat I'd just rip through the woods at a decent clip with no problems, you can try it in the east but it's a bitch
stowe and Jay have some of my favorite trees anywhere

[willywhit]

OZ? TITS ? be more specific Bob

[P06781]

I learned in wisconsin but lived in Portland since 1992. I would have to say that the NW cascades experience frequent freeze thaw conditions and can produce boiler plate rivaling any east coast area. Now most just dont ride when its bad here but it is "fun" or challenging to practice riding and it really lets you know how good/bad your technique is. Anyone that comes for late spring/summer riding at tline can tell you about the morning ice warming to perfect carving conditions then to slush.

Jim

[kennyusmc]

your question was if east coasters were better ridders , but some answered if they were better ice riders...

I would look at this way take a look at who are the best in the sport and where they ride.

[Mike T]

I learned in wisconsin but lived in Portland since 1992. I would have to say that the NW cascades experience frequent freeze thaw conditions and can produce boiler plate rivaling any east coast area. Now most just dont ride when its bad here but it is "fun" or challenging to practice riding and it really lets you know how good/bad your technique is. Anyone that comes for late spring/summer riding at tline can tell you about the morning ice warming to perfect carving conditions then to slush.

Jim

The best is the frozen cord with inch-deep ridges. Tricky in its own way - like when your boardds wants to fopllow the corduroy and not the arc you want it to follow!

I recall a few April mronings at Tahoe that were pretty dramn icy too. But the difference is, it softens up out here where back east you might have that for weeks on end.

If you get a sunny and cold 2 weeks, the Outback runs at Bachelor wind up boilerplate. They grrom right after closing, and then the wind flattens the cord and packs it down nice. I make it a point to spend some time over there for practice, so I don't get schooled as bad if I ever go back east!

[willywhit]

the East Coast sucks- you have to actually be able to ride well to get into any of the real juicy stuff ;)

[Rob Stevens]

No offense, Y'all, but if I need to move East to get better, I'll stay out West and continue to suck.

[Pow]

It hones your skills, quickly out of necessity. Im still learning, but ive improved so much since i started carving. I'm not sticking around, though. as soon as all my schooling is done i'm heading to Utah:cool:

[Kirk]

as soon as all my schooling is done i'm heading to Utah:cool:


Good choice! But BEWARE: Based on what I'm reading, your newly acquired east-coast carving skills will be lost, GONE...after repeated exposure to all this wimpy snow out here :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[jtslalom]

East coast = good technique but I will go one up on that. The most northern east coast resorts aren't that bad as far as ice, it's when you go below the vermont boarder that it gets really bad. All in all I have never ridden with any one from the west except Eric J and he rips. I would have to say that in general it is hard to ride consistently good in the east but as far as better riders, we should have a contest to see.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Ok, I'm going to get lots of Hate-mail for this question, but I'm curious of eastcoast riders are better than those from the west because of what we learn to ride in..... which is basicly the worst possible **** that we dare blast down without any concern.

Lastyear I was freeriding while not in lesson and chatted with some people from the midwest, and all they did was bitch about the conditions, and yet it actualy was one of the nicest days of conditions from lastyear.

Does this give us eastcoasters an advantage and make us better riders ?
Dave needs more butter

[Frank Morales]

Yeh lets meet at the boiler plate best man wins a tuning kit loser has to be out of town by sunset. West is the Best

[willywhit]

On thing ive noticed about this board.....
how quickly they go off topic!!


Does this give us eastcoasters an advantage and make us better riders ?

nobody said anything about more FUN !!!

No fun my babe no fun
No fun to hang around
Feeling that same old way
No fun to hang around
Freaked out for another day
No fun my babe no fun

Iggy Pop | No Fun

[willywhit]

c2c, you know I'm kidding.
of course, it's waaay better out west terrain wise and snow wise.

It's a question of: does the harsh conditions of the east breed "better" athletes than the ones that were "lucky" enough to grow up with better conditions to train on ?
Kinda like: did catholic school breed better students than the ones that weren't mentally tortured by parochial educators ?

Even Iggy will tell ya: Learning isn't fun

As one of my wisest college professors said when students were grumbling about having to learn formal definitions for a mathematics class, “I don’t know where people get the idea that learning is supposed to be fun. Learning can be fun, but it can also be really tough—even downright miserable. Knowing is fun."

[dano]

IGGY!!! Everybody needa a HOME!

Yeah that dark grey boiler plate is the best. Impossible to catch an edge on!

In my day, We drove up to Cannon after a nice 3 inch freezing rainstorm and we LIKED IT! What fog???!! Sleet is just as good as snow...!!

Leave it to us Pilgrims to find yet another way to brag about something that blows. ( GO SOX! )

All 25 or so of my career "LEGIT east coast powder days" could not match up to the any one of the freaking amazing snow daze I enjoyed while in Utah.
If I did jumps off crazy stuff out of bounds like that back home, I'd be DEAD. I also liked the way the groom is not all gobbled up before noon.

I think we east coasters have lower expectations for conditions so we're easier to please, we'll suck up whatever we can get and SAVOR it.

[willywhit]

and we think nothing of wearing a trashbag if the "snow" is coming down but isn't quite in frozen form yet.
runs are runs and "frozen granular" sounds better than ICE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSJ_k49ITUY

[Frank Morales]

ya see now we're having fun.

[Justin A.]

runs are runs and "frozen granular" sounds better than ICE


Did you ever see that warren miller montage about "Hardpack Granular"? I just looked on youtube, but couldn't turn up anything. Its basically Warren ragging on snow reports, quality, classic WM. It shows alot of people clanking around in ski boots and falling while trying to climb a small rise that's covered in "hardpack granular", with a Warren Miller monolouge in the background.

[Chris]

hardpack granular........

or this?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-928879558236330974&q=snowboard+racing

[willywhit]

carnage: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5675783275122491754&q=snowboard+racing
really lucky:http://www.lat34.com/cr_johnson_profile

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Glenn Plake to the rescue! Classic good guy indeed.

[gdboytyler]

Ok, I'm going to get lots of Hate-mail for this question, but I'm curious of eastcoast riders are better than those from the west because of what we learn to ride in..... which is basicly the worst possible **** that we dare blast down without any concern.

Considering the top alpine riders in the world come from Switzerland, which is known for nice fluffly powder, I call BS on the theory that ice coast conditions make better riders.

And in the West vs East department (for the US), the best freestyler is Shaun White who is from Cali. In alpine, there are 7 US Snowboard team members nominated from the west, and 5 from the East. 06/07 Team (http://www.ussnowboarding.org/public/team.php?&dId=7&sN=2)

Still no East Coast superiority.

And finally, West Coasters have more fun :biggthump

[Slim]

It has been my observation that riders typically get good at riding the available conditions and terrain. For so-called 'ice coasters' this may result in well-developed hardpack and ice skills, but perhaps less developed skills in loose, choppy, and unpacked snow.

Does this make them better riders? Maybe on ice, when compared to riders w/o the requisite hard snow experience. But maybe not in pow, glop, slab, or chop.

I guess it comes down to what do you mean by better rider.

What do you mean?

[BobD]

It could be that although some riders develope great technique to deal with icey hard pack, others may be restricted in thier developement by often having to ride in poor conditions. It takes some determination to go out and push to your limits when it's bad, knowing you're going to get bruised up. Much easier to ride conservitively and not progress.

I've also heard that the argument that that so many great ski racers come from the east and midwest can be explained by the pitch of most hills and not thier ice technique. If you practice on less than perfect pitch for racing, that is, not steep enough. You must work harder to go fast.

BobD

[D-Sub]

is it really that bad, that often, back east?

sucks, because Ive considered heading out there to stay, maybe even NH to join the free state movement. They'd probably turn me away though.

[Gleb]

Considering the top alpine riders in the world come from Switzerland, which is known for nice fluffly powder, I call BS on the theory that ice coast conditions make better riders.

And in the West vs East department (for the US), the best freestyler is Shaun White who is from Cali. In alpine, there are 7 US Snowboard team members nominated from the west, and 5 from the East. 06/07 Team (http://www.ussnowboarding.org/public/team.php?&dId=7&sN=2)

Still no East Coast superiority.

And finally, West Coasters have more fun :biggthump

then you have to compare how many people ski/ride on the east coast to how many on the west and so on :rolleyes:

[kennyusmc]

No matter what I would prefer to ride in awesome tahoe weather with a good vertical climb newer high speed chairs. Comparing to members mountains one one the east and one on the west.


easy coast

Elevation
Top: 2380 ft
Bottom: 1230 ft
Vertical Drop: 1150 ft
Longest Run: 2 mi

vs west coast

Elevation
Top: 8610 ft
Bottom: 6330 ft
Vertical Drop: 2280 ft
Longest Run: 2.9 mi
Snow Making: 17 acres

[paappraiser]

IceCoast...

Im in the land called " Iceland"

The ice we get here is from the whole mountain going into the mid 40's during the day. Then refreezing... Then they blow 2 inches of crap snow on top at night ... dust on ICE... basically...you fall, your sore.

Its actually BLUE/green sometimes when you move the dust off it.

We go out west because a crappy west coast day is a PERFECT lower east coast day...

Are east coast riders better? Naw.. mabey just mabey a little better at ice and poor conditions and a little more happy to sharpen our edges.

[willywhit]

Team - A
Name Hometown Date of Birth Height Weight Olympics
Michelle Gorgone Sudbury, MA October 18, 1983 5-2 150 2006

Team - B
Name Hometown Date of Birth Height Weight Olympics
Tyler Jewell Sudbury, MA February 21, 1977 5-9 185 2006
Chris Klug Aspen, CO November 18, 1972 6-3 220 1998, 2002
Eric Warren Bennington, VT April 11, 1982 5-10 175

Team - C
Name Hometown Date of Birth Height Weight Olympics
Stacia Hookom Edwards, CO July 22, 1975 5-3 145
Zachary Kay Mount Shasta, CA August 18, 1981 6-0 185
Linsday Lloyd Centerville, UT February 18, 1981 5-6 'ye
Ryan McDonald Entiat, WA January 02, 1980 6-4 228
Erica Mueller Steamboat Springs, CO June 25, 1981 5-4 140
Justin Reiter Steamboat Springs, CO February 02, 1981 5-11 155
Adam Smith Bend, OR September 07, 1980 6-2 225
Josh Wylie Londonderry, VT July 07, 1981 6-0 190


the a and b team hail from the east coast, the "better" riders that is

Gretchen Bleiler Aspen, CO April 10, 1981 5-4 120 2006
Michelle Gorgone Sudbury, MA October 18, 1983 5-2 150 2006
Jayson Hale Sierraville, CA June 26, 1985 5-9 155 2006
Nate Holland Squaw Valley, CA November 08, 1978 5-10 185 2006
Lindsey Jacobellis Stratton Mountain, VT August 19, 1985 5-5 120 2006
Lindsey Jacobellis Stratton Mountain, VT August 19, 1985 5-5 120 2006
Tyler Jewell Sudbury, MA February 21, 1977 5-9 185 2006
Jason Smith Basalt, CO January 11, 1982 6-1 180 2006
Hannah Teter Belmont, VT January 27, 1987 5-6 140 2006
Graham Watanabe Sun Valley, ID March 19, 1982 5-6 150 2006
Seth Wescott Carrabassett Valley, ME June 28, 1976 6-1 195 2006


olympic team is split 50/50 -well, not if ya count lindsey twice

[Jack Michaud]

Considering the top alpine riders in the world come from Switzerland, which is known for nice fluffly powder, I call BS on the theory that ice coast conditions make better riders.

Apples and oranges. Skiing in Switzerland is like baseball here. There are chairlifts in every town. That region is a factory for skiing talent. No comparison.


And in the West vs East department (for the US), the best freestyler is Shaun White who is from Cali.

No surprise there. Western riders can huck their carcasses at will, knowing they will probably not get hurt. The idea of even attempting a 900+ rotor or anything inverted here is simply unfathomable to most eastern riders.


In alpine, there are 7 US Snowboard team members nominated from the west, and 5 from the East. 06/07 Team (http://www.ussnowboarding.org/public/team.php?&dId=7&sN=2)

Interesting. Is the ratio of east/west snowboarder populations 5/7? Doubt it.

Give it up. When an east coast rider goes west, it's like Superman leaving planet Krypton.

[Tommy D]

is it really that bad, that often, back east?

sucks, because Ive considered heading out there to stay, maybe even NH to join the free state movement. They'd probably turn me away though.

Not anymore... Usually. At least at Stratton, the grooming is so good, that the snow is fantastic, for at least an hour. :lol: Then it gets a bit choppy, but still managable.

Last "winter" was particularly bad ... melting temps during the day, then rain/snow at night almost every week made for some rather miserable riding. But for that first hour or so, the rest of the riding was painful.


When an east coast rider goes west, it's like Superman leaving planet Krypton.
Yes.

[waterstreet]

This isn't for sure but I've heard many people from the East can handle the ice like cake, but the constant need of sharp edges cuts down on the life of their boards. So I guess in saying this I have a question myself.
Do riders from the East always need to have sharp edges to have a good day out on the ice?

[Kirk]

Apples and oranges. Skiing in Switzerland is like baseball here. There are chairlifts in every town.

Considering the fact that we're talking about the prevailing conditions of a particular region and the type of athletes that are "brought up" riding/skiing those conditons, I'd say it's an interesting observation.


"That region is a factory for skiing talent."

Interesting. From reading the posts above, some people here seem to be making the same claim about the east coast. Seems we have some from both sides of the Mississippi,- makes sense to me. Serious talent from one coast to the next, and some in between.

This is an absolutely POINTLESS argument. Riding is riding! You get used to the conditions you ride in regularly. You go somewhere else, you adjust your technique to those conditions. I would have to agree, keeping the edges sharp and appropriately beveled is going to be extra important for riding the hard stuff. Oh, and falling on that hard stuff is gonna hurt more :(


"Give it up. When an east coast rider goes west, it's like Superman leaving planet Krypton."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cool! The blue tights/red butt-huggers combo would make a very unique speed suit. Does the cape really give you any speed advantages? I'll want an autograph to be sure!

[Mike T]

This is an absolutely POINTLESS argument.

Not to mention divisive. We've been here before... do we need to feed the fire?

[Jack Michaud]

Considering the fact that we're talking about the prevailing conditions of a particular region and the type of athletes that are "brought up" riding/skiing those conditons, I'd say it's an interesting observation.


"That region is a factory for skiing talent."

Interesting. From reading the posts above, some people here seem to be making the same claim about the east coast.

No, it's a matter of population. In Switzerland, the percentage of kids who are brought up skiing is probably similar to the percentage of American kids brought up playing baseball. The best talent rises to the top. That's why the best baseball players in the world come from regions where lots of people play baseball (America, Japan, Dominican Republic...) There might be dozens of Bode Millers walking around New Hampshire who have simply never skied.

In America, most kids who ski do so just for the fun of it, and if their parents can afford it, not because there is a "Little League" they can join. Then within the relatively tiny American skiing minority, it is a minority of kids who realize "hey, I'm pretty good at this" and whose parents want to make the lifestyle commitment of joining/paying for a racing program. By that time, those kid's Swiss counterparts probably already have a 5-10 year head start in the gates.

[Kirk]

No, it's a matter of population. In Switzerland, the percentage of kids who are brought up skiing is probably similar to the percentage of American kids brought up playing baseball.

OK Jack, I can see your point. But it seems that perhaps it's more of a cultural thing than population. I guess I'm looking at the population of the east coast, particularly the New England region, the access to a variety of resorts (many considered world class) and the skiing/riding culture that I know exists there. I have a hard time believing that there isn't a good share of sliding sports programs available to develop youth riders/skiiers for competition (maybe some coaches could chime in here). As mentioned above, there are plenty of riders coming out of the east coast competing on the WC level - many started sliding when they were barely old enough to take their first steps. Then again, maybe many of these kids split their time with other "traditional" American activities growing up (ie baseball, football, etc.), and drop the snow sports for a period of time? Conversely, the "average kid" from Austria or Switzerland may eat, breathe, sleep skiing/riding ONLY? Cross training for skiing/riding off season. This would make an interesting study....


Oh, and if I see Superman on the hill, I'm still asking for his autograph...if Seinfeld is there with him, I may try to get his too :biggthump

Took this one slightly OT - sorry to the OP :o

[bobdea]

next to no rider development unless mommy or daddy is reasonably wealthy, the **** get pricey quick.
then you need a parent or a nanny with the time to get Jr to competitions often held on school days.
so, it boils down to rich kids that happen to slide that their parents have the time/money to invest in the sport, this end up being a extreme minority.

[paappraiser]

This isn't for sure but I've heard many people from the East can handle the ice like cake, but the constant need of sharp edges cuts down on the life of their boards. So I guess in saying this I have a question myself.
Do riders from the East always need to have sharp edges to have a good day out on the ice?

I dont sharpen my edges ever day. But a nice edge does help when you hit a sheet of blue... Im not kidding when I say we have sheets of pure solid ice, its rock hard, like black ice on the road....

I just make sure Im sharp, and let it go. My boards last long enough there is a lot of metal there.

Its funny... The mountains here will never report the condition as "Icy" they just say "mixed terrain" you kinda know its going to be a bad day.

[willywhit]

you can usually find some snow that isn't "skiied off" on the edges of the trails, you really only need a 5 or 6 foot wide swath to wiggle turns on.
we use the ice to "hockey stop" on

[Frank Morales]

I use ice to keep my beer cold.

[Jack Michaud]

OK Jack, I can see your point. But it seems that perhaps it's more of a cultural thing than population.

Well yes, it's cultural. By "population" I meant the sheer number of people in race programs in each region.


I guess I'm looking at the population of the east coast, particularly the New England region, the access to a variety of resorts (many considered world class) and the skiing/riding culture that I know exists there.

I'd say the "world class" resorts are in the minority in NE. As for access, any slope you could seriously train at are hours away from most people. I've been to Switzerland. Saying there is at least one chairlift in every town is not much of an exaggeration, if at all.


I have a hard time believing that there isn't a good share of sliding sports programs available to develop youth riders/skiiers for competition (maybe some coaches could chime in here).

Off the top of my head I can only think of a handful of world class programs. CVA, SMS, Gould, Holderness... below that there are certainly other programs, but again it's a matter of culture, and definitely what Bob said above.


As mentioned above, there are plenty of riders coming out of the east coast competing on the WC level - many started sliding when they were barely old enough to take their first steps. Then again, maybe many of these kids split their time with other "traditional" American activities growing up (ie baseball, football, etc.), and drop the snow sports for a period of time? Conversely, the "average kid" from Austria or Switzerland may eat, breathe, sleep skiing/riding ONLY? Cross training for skiing/riding off season. This would make an interesting study....

Agreed.


Oh, and if I see Superman on the hill, I'm still asking for his autograph...if Seinfeld is there with him, I may try to get his too :biggthump

Took this one slightly OT - sorry to the OP :o

Heh, I'm thinking Seinfeld is a bit too much of a dandy to last long on a ski slope!

[D-Sub]

I use ice to keep my beer cold.

well hey...look at it this way...when the better-than-others ice coasters SLAM on that "hardpack"...at least they can just lay there to keep the swelling down

;)

[Bullwings]

No, it's a matter of population. In Switzerland, the percentage of kids who are brought up skiing is probably similar to the percentage of American kids brought up playing baseball. The best talent rises to the top.


A friend of mine at work lived in switzerland for 15 years. He said that that the school system there has a mandatory "winter-sports break" in addition to the holiday season break (christmas for some people). So, kids get to take a whole week of school off so they can go up to the alps for snowboarding and skiing.

Only kids here (U.S.) that see winter sports, whether for recreational fun or competition, are those whose parents have money (majority of them anyway), which suports another claim i made earlier regarding the kind of people found on the slopes...

[gdboytyler]

Apples and oranges. Skiing in Switzerland is like baseball here. There are chairlifts in every town. That region is a factory for skiing talent. No comparison.
....
Give it up. When an east coast rider goes west, it's like Superman leaving planet Krypton.

And why is Switzerland a factory for ski talent? Because the Swiss get awesome conditions, which makes it worthwhile for the population at large to participate in the snowsports.

I theorize that if the Swiss had ice coast conditions, they wouldn't be as involved in skiing and snowboarding.

As for the east coaster being Supermen when they're out west, where is the video to prove this? From video clips I've seen of SES, I haven't seen any East Coast superiority :barf:

I also theorize that the East/West debate is always brought up by an east coaster. Inferiority complex or jealousy :boxing_sm

[bobdea]

Terje is from Norway, another country where most people ski but unlike Switzerland it's friggin' icey and cold just like VT/NH/ME/Quebec and NB
I thought france and Italy where where the good snow was in europe anyway, I thought the Swiss got not as good conditions for some reason
also, much of the skiing culture in europe has nothing to do with conditions other than there IS snow much of the year, it was for a long time the most efficient way to get to school or town or whatever short of having dogsleds

[Kirk]

A friend of mine at work lived in switzerland for 15 years. He said that that the school system there has a mandatory "winter-sports break" in addition to the holiday season break (christmas for some people). So, kids get to take a whole week of school off so they can go up to the alps for snowboarding and skiing.

Mandatory!? Wow, how'd it be to grow up with that "requirement" as part of a school curriculum :cool:

"You vill snowboard oder schi und you VILL ENJOY IT!!"

[Bullwings]

I thought france and Italy where where the good snow was in europe anyway, I thought the Swiss got not as good conditions for some reason
also, much of the skiing culture in europe has nothing to do with conditions other than there IS snow much of the year, it was for a long time the most efficient way to get to school or town or whatever short of having dogsleds


yeah, that's what i remember hearing. of course, i've never been to the swiss Alps, but they definitely don't have great conditions all the time. in fact, i've heard the opposite from people that have been to the swiss alps and ski year round. I don't think they necessarily get as much snow, precipitation wise, but rather that what snow they do get, stays there. That, in turn, means less than ideal conditions. I could very well be wrong, but i'll leave that for someone from those areas to correct (year round data observations is what we need, not -- i made a 1 week trip there once and it was awesome).


i'll look up a climate chart and check what their annual precipitation looks like. or, i'll be lazy, and not do anything. you'll know...

Edit:

http://www.myswissalps.com/switzerland/switzerland-nature.asp?lang=EN (http://www.myswissalps.com/switzerland/switzerland-nature.asp?lang=EN)

under the weather section, they show an average precipitation of 400cm (not inches). that's just precipitation, and not necessarily snowfall, some of that might be rain. i'll throw out some mammoth numbers now.

i took this from the mammoth website. the last 15 seasons, show an average of 441 inches of snow. multiply that by 2.54, and that's 1121cm. that's close to 3x the amount. last year had 668 inches or 1697cm of snow.

those are just purely numbers, and it says nothing about the snow conditions per say. however, with the numbers they report 400cm (about 157 inches) and how much snow you always see in pictures and stuff, it probably means that the snow stays there. and you know what they say about snow that just stays there forever... i hope you know because i don't :lol::lol:

[Jack Michaud]

I thought the Swiss got not as good conditions for some reason

I dunno, but Zinal is in Switzerland, and from here it looks pretty darn good:
http://www.extremecarving.com/films/2003/wmv/stoked1.wmv

[BobD]

In the midwest, we never ride ice. At least according to the conditions reports at all the hills. It's always packed powder. Also, even when the dirt is showing through the snow - it's always 24 to 48 inch base.

BobD

[gdboytyler]

... I thought the Swiss got not as good conditions for some reason ...

I've only been to Switzerland once (March of 91 at St. Moritz for a week), and the snow conditions were great. The groomed was hero snow. And the 1 day that it dumped a couple feet, the snow was nice and dry and it stayed fairly untracked off-piste most of the day.

And when I was researching that trip, I read plenty of articles that raved about the snow conditions at Switzerland.