Bombers / Hardboots in Couloir Magazine

[Sinecure]

This month there's a segment of Couloir mag that's focused on what people use for backcountry snowboarding. Some guy named Zach Davis put in his two cents. Of course, we've all had plenty of opportunity to benefit from Zach's input since he often stops by here to enlighten us. But its always cool to see TD2s in a magazine.

Here's the best I could do with a scan.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i249/rsalzman/sc00cad588.jpg

[Derf]

He says in the article that he removed some excess material to make the Bombers lighter. I'm curious to know what he did exactly.

[Jon Dahl]

Even those of us who have pestered him for the info are STILL waiting for that info.....c'mon Zach, spill the beans! Or Fin, post up some details, you did the work!

[fin]

I should come clean on this but Zach is a sponsored rider for Bomber. He did an incredible trip up Denali and we supplied him with the bindings.

His TD2 bindings are the Ti model with some material cut out from the base plate and center disk. I cannot remember the weight savings but it was not huge. However, when climbing Denali every gram counts.

His trip was amazing and Maybe we can talk him into posting some pictures here. Come on Zach! :ices_ange

[D-Sub]

Fin

ever think about doing low profile 0* ? seems like the 1/2" or so could be shorter

always wondered what they might be like...would there be strength issues? Obviously not much weight there, but the lower ride might appeal to some.

It seems even the 3* might be able to be lowered without risking the plate hitting the board?

curious

[Sinecure]

I should come clean on this but Zach is a sponsored rider for Bomber.

He's very upfront about that. I didn't think it mattered really. Knowing Zach, he wouldn't ride it if he didn't think it was the best.

Consider yourself cleansed. :biggthump

[skategoat]

How does this work? He climbs with the approach skis and the Donek strapped to his back? Then, he packs the skiis and rides the Donek down? Seems to me that the skiis on his back would be unwieldy. How long are those things?

[Zach Davis]

Works quite well, actually...


The skis are not so long that they are "unwieldy." They are also veeeeeerrry light.

I was working with Donek on some collapsible approach skis, but tinkering has proven that the idea may just be too complicated. Plus, experience with a single-piece ski has proven that you don't really need the skis to fold down.

There has been sooo much hype sorrounding splitboards for a number of years, that I spent a good amount of time on them. Ultimately, as I became more and more enamored by the hard-boot riding style, I found that I simply could not get the angles and stance-widths that I wanted out of the Voile mechanism... plus, simple biomechanics suggests that it is dramatically more efficient to carry weight on your hips (backpack) than extended laterally from either end of your feet (splitboard).

Sinecure is right... I use Bomber bindings because they are the best. They are not the lightest option, but they WILL NOT break, if taken care of. When I go to high altitude, I cannot be worried about brittle plastics and cheap manufacturing.

Zach

[D-Sub]

Zach

ever considered taking a total newb up?

[Zach Davis]

Always happy to introduce someone to bc snowboarding.

Are you in the Tahoe area?

This winter, I will be getting out, mainly in the middle of the day. I have clients in my gym between 6AM and 9AM, then again at 4PM most days.

I am about 25 minutes from the Mt. Rose trailhead.

Zach

Also, if you're in Reno, and you don't want to get smoked on the way uphill, you should come train with me :eplus2:

[Pow]

collapsable touring skiis... like these? http://zigzagtour.de/index2.htm sorry, its all in german

[Randy T.]

Always happy to introduce someone to bc snowboarding.

Are you in the Tahoe area?

This winter, I will be getting out, mainly in the middle of the day. I have clients in my gym between 6AM and 9AM, then again at 4PM most days.

I am about 25 minutes from the Mt. Rose trailhead.

Zach

Also, if you're in Reno, and you don't want to get smoked on the way uphill, you should come train with me :eplus2:

That sounds very tempting! Is your gym in Gardnerville? If so that's a little too far for me to drive for training.

[Zach Davis]

No....


We're in Reno, just behind Trader Joe's... Guess I need to adjust my profile.

Check it out:

www.trainlikeitmatters.com

Zach

[Jim Callen]

I'm curious Zach, do you ever have problems with the skis hitting the snow on your descent? How are they positioned on your back? Might I ask what length they are? I'm hoping to do get more into bc this year, and I've been weighing my options, but this sounds the best so far.

[Zach Davis]

I know the skis are somewhere in the 120cm range.... not very long. When I have a minute, I'll go look at the Karhu site.

I took off the stock bindings and replaced them with Dynafit toe pieces and Voile heel risers. A note about this: Your best bet is to find t-nuts that you can mount all of the hardware with.. t-nut through the base. You won't be "skiing" them, anyway. If you don't, and you just drill the skis, the bindings may come out under hard use.... happened to me a few times.

I may run a design by Donek that has a slightly strudier core, where it would be drilled for Dynafits... We'll see... I ended up not doing much in the "snowboarding" world last year: new baby, new business, etc... so, i didn't stay as in touch with my sponsors as I should have.

As for hitting the snow on the way down: hasn't happened yet, and I can't imagine how it would... mmmaaaaaayyybee on very firm corn or high-altitude chalky snow. But, in those conditions, I tend to be on my feet instead of on skis.

If you run high angles, approach skis are the only option in my mind.

[Sinecure]

It doesn't look like the skis would be a problem:

http://www.trainlikeitmatters.com/images/stories/zachslidemtn.jpg


Zach, what constitutes high angles? 55? 60? 50?

Is the limitation because of the Voile hardware and mounting pucks on a splitboard?

The more I consider doing more BC riding, the more I start to think that I need to dramatically expand my quiver of boards, skis, snowshoes, crampons, splits, AT Boots, AT Skis/Bindings, Avy gear, etc. - depending on conditions, location, partners, trip length, trip origin, etc.

Hmmm.

[Zach Davis]

ooooh baby... that was a good day.. on my Incline 168, no less :biggthump

I'd say anything over 35 degrees becomes a problem. Prior claims to have solved this with the ATV splitboard, but I tested one and wasn't able to get those angles without running a 21" width or greater.

With the Voile system, you also have to deal with the lack of cant and/or lift.

Here's what I have seen:
- Tons of pretty damn good snowboarders using soft boots and splitboards, for moderate/local backcountry

- 3, maybe 4 REALLY good snowboarders using splitboards and soft boots for more dangerous descents... still in what i would call local backcountry.

- 100% of the high-end, snowboard mountaineers that I've met use Alpine Touring boots with plate bindings.

- I've heard rumors of and seen 1 claim online of someone using soft boots above 17,000 feet, but it seems pretty dumb to me.. good way to loose toes.

- I also know of the story of the French guy (can't remember his name) who had a sherpa carry his soft-boots to the summit of Everest, up the South Col route. He put them on, on the summit and dropped into the North Face... never to be heard of again.

[Jon Dahl]

When I rode the Voile 178 Swallowtail at splitfest, 35 degrees on the front foot was about all I could manage, and I typically like to ride 50f/45r on more freeride oriented boards. Cant was a bit of an issue, but I made do for the day. On my homemade split I've been able to kick it up a little from there 38f/30ish rear. If you go too much higher than that you run into issues. Eric (Mr.E on splitboard.com) modded his Mt. Gun to get some really steep angles on it, but it looks like it was a lotta work. There may be some value to a setup like a (ugh) Burton Vapor and short approach skis, using TD2's and Dynafit TLT4's. It certainly would be the least effort for the most bang. I too have been thinking of going this route myself(maybe not the Burton though!). Seems to me that getting the weight down is important. Just my $.02 Amero......

[Dave*]

This is my solution

Karhu Kruzer approach skis, 99cm long, junked the soft boot attachments, built my own adaptor plates to hit the right center of gravity that bolt to the three stock inserts with the riggings from a junked voile split board tee nutted to the adaptor plates, voile plates on that.

See attached mini pics.

Plans include full skins and maybe some homemade rip offs of the voile climbing "teeth" that attach to the articulating bar, and some " leashes" for the big voile pins .


Question for Zach- What pack using? Best way to carry to avoid cracking head, getting hung up etc?

I have been stacking them and carrying diagonal with tips over left shoulder to right hip to avoid dragging on heel sides and minimal helmet contact, have tried vertical stacked, separate vertical, horizontal , X ed etc with less success.

[D-Sub]

zach Im nowhere near Reno but its one of the places Ive considered moving to. thanks for the offer though. I was just seein.

sweet site on the training, too. If Im ever in the area maybe you can get my old ass back in shape.

[Zach Davis]

Nice set-up Dave... I like my skis just a little longer, but I'm also big on deep powder.

I've been using an old DaKine pack for a while now... I think it's the "Guide" model.

I've got a friend who makes these packs: www.cilogear.com
I'm going to be using one this year... they have a ton of attachment and strap options, without a ton of weight... and, they're a lot less expensive than other packs on the market.

zach

[terekhov]

Zach, yet one question: why skis and not snowshoes? I try to make decision which way to go for backcountry next season, and all people around are favoring snowshoes. please elaborate if possible.

PS I'm hardbooter and didn't like split idea

http://snow.sib.ru/nay1/img_2905.jpg

[Zach Davis]

Snow shoes are:

1. Anatomicaly dis-advantageous - they force a lot of stress on your groin, especially when carrying a pack
2. Approach skis float better on powder.... unless you have enormous snow shoes... which are heavy
3. Approach skis glide on top of the snow, just a little, at the end of each step... more distance for less work.

A lot depends on your snow conditions, though... if you tend to have a lot of firm, windpacked snow; snowshoes work well enough to be attractive, especially considering the lower price.

Zach

[crucible]

I agree 100% with Zach on approach skis being the most advantageous in the long run.

It is especially true if yoyu do a backcountry trip with a mixed group of skiers and boarders. Approach skis allow the backcountry boarder to maximize their use up the up-track made by their fellow skiers - travelling in this track on snowshoes or a splitboard is more work.

The skis also work better on uphill traverses than snowshoes, with the possible exception of Vert snowshoes. Unlike splitboards, they also keep the integrity and lateral stiffness of your board intact. It also means transitions from climbing to descent are smoother and quicker.

In 12 years of backcountry riding, I have gone through the whole gamut of approach tools: Sherpa snowshoes, homecut splitboard, Vert snowshoes, factory made splitboard, and now finally 125cm approach skis with the Dynafit bindings, like Zach.

Live and learn, live and learn....

George

[Jon Dahl]

How are the approach ski people dealing with late spring/summer approaches? You know, the kind were you hike in for a mile or so then hit snow sporadically till the snow gets useable. Is schlepping the skis/board combo a pain? How do you lash it all down? You've almost got me converted, almost....

[Rob Stevens]

2 more reasons not to use snowshoes:

-The skiers that put in the track will be pissed at your "modifications" to it.
-Traversing sidehill with something wider than your foot is lame.

I cross carry my approach skis so I don't get hit in the back of the head by them. The Dakine Helipro or Helipro II have this feature and it's excellent.

I don't do high alpine, but it seems that eliminating plastic from your back or frontcountry experience could save alot of aggro.

By the way, the guy who dissappeared on Everest was Bruno Gouvy.

[Neil Gendzwill]

By the way, the guy who dissappeared on Everest was Bruno Gouvy.I remember him from magazine pics a few years back. He was a <del>nutbar</del>real risk-taker.

[Rob Stevens]

This may jog some memories:

Bruno gouvy in his Marlboro red and white, strapping into a bullet-shaped nacelle and jumping out of a plane over the Alps, looking for that special rush only breaking a freefall speed record can provide.

I will sidetrack this thread no more.

[Zach Davis]

How are the approach ski people dealing with late spring/summer approaches? You know, the kind were you hike in for a mile or so then hit snow sporadically till the snow gets useable. Is schlepping the skis/board combo a pain? How do you lash it all down? You've almost got me converted, almost....

I just lash them on top of the board... Actually, in the late spring. I tend to be off on a big trip, after which, I put away my board for the summer.

[Jon Dahl]

I just lash them on top of the board... Actually, in the late spring. I tend to be off on a big trip, after which, I put away my board for the summer.
Yeah, well, I usually don't have the big trip option. I will look into the lashing techniques I can use with my packs and see what I can come up with. Thanks!

[crucible]

When it comes to late Spring and early Summer trips, I just keep the approach skis on my feet when I have to plough through the occasional rocky patch.

If I have to do a long logging road approach to the beginning of the snowline, then I strap the board on the back, and one approach ski on each side of the pack. If you keep the binding as light as you can with Dynafits, then the total set up is usually just 10 ounces heavier than snowshoes.


George

[terekhov]

Zach, thank you!

again, our snoshoe advocates asks me for your further insight on such claims:
1) on snowshoes it is easier (than on skis) to do steep frontal ascents
2) if no of touring skiers in company - and there are snowshoers with his own ascent policy - is approach skis advantageous in this situation?
3) do you use crampons around skis on hard firn and ice patches?

[Zach Davis]

Zach, thank you!

again, our snoshoe advocates asks me for your further insight on such claims:
1) on snowshoes it is easier (than on skis) to do steep frontal ascents
2) if no of touring skiers in company - and there are snowshoers with his own ascent policy - is approach skis advantageous in this situation?
3) do you use crampons around skis on hard firn and ice patches?

A lot depends on the terrain in which you will be touring...If you are going from the road, directly to an approach over 40 degrees or so, then you maybe better served by snowshoes... especially, if you can get a hold of Verts.

I tend to look for lower-angle approaches, as contouring around a steep hill is almost always more efficient.

For icy patches, Firn, etc... it just really depends on the angle and severity. I don't have ski cramponds, but I have at times taken off my skis and booted across icy patches... or I can just go around them. It's really situation-dependent.

Where I tour, the terrain really allows for a lot of winding approaches.

Zach

[eddie]

For snowshoes, like my MSR lightning Acents but I have been thinking about approach skis because they do float better for longer tours. MSR was trying to design their shoes for better traversing traction (I believe they traverse better than any other snowshoe) but at the same time you will sacrifice some float since they are narrower.

[skategoat]

Dakine Helipro backpack on sale now at Steep and Cheap for $29. Act fast.

[felix]

I also know of the story of the French guy (can't remember his name) who had a sherpa carry his soft-boots to the summit of Everest, up the South Col route. He put them on, on the summit and dropped into the North Face... never to be heard of again.

Are you certain not talking bout Marco Siffredi from Chamonix?
I'm not that sure if he was using soft boots or if he was in hardboots up at Mt.Everest. One thing for sure was that he knew what he was doing and according to a eye witness who was in the Team of Stefan Gatts to climb up Mt Everest (Stefan Gatts was on a custom built 1.4kg snowboard with Duotone topsheet - which was practically falling apart once he reached the base camp, with hardboots) Marco had better equip than did Stefan. While Stefans bindings failed as some metal broke Marco had supposedly no big problems. Marco did not carry up much stuff himself (I think someone carried his oxygen so he could carry up his snowboard, whereas Gatts took up oxygen for himself and his snowboard). Marco reached the summit just a few hours after Gatts.

However everyone described Marco as an responsible person. He died two or three years ago in an avalanche on Mt Everest.

I know Marco Siffredi used Softboots on loads of scary first-descents in the Mont-Blanc region. He was famous for going down a 200m near vertical face on a snowboard at Mt.Blanc without ropes just smashing in his ice-axe after every jump-turn. Noone had ever descended that face, not even as iceclimber. Never ever seen anyone afterwards who went down such things without beeing attached to a rope.

[Zach Davis]

You know, it might have been Marco...

I need to look into it, again. I know that Marco died on the North Face of Everest, and it wasn't froman avalanche. The theory was that he just fell asleep and died in the cold.

It's hard to speal ill of the dead, but form what I remember, Marco had the "elitist" attitude... having Sherpas carry his stuff, etc...

Zach