Restraining bars

[Gleb]

How often do you put the restraining bar on the lifts down?

[kjl]

I do when they have footrests, or if I'm going to do a major backpack-involved gear-fiddle, or if there are Powder Pandas I have to escort to the top of the lift ;)

[Gleb]

i totally forgot the footrest thing. I hate when i get off a lift and find out that my circulation is cut off.:angryfire

[dragonsword5]

I usually put mine down...I like to lean over and just rest my arms on it for the short trip up the mountain. Though I also hate not having the foot rests ::cough:: Mountain Creek ::cough::

Worst thing about the old heavy foot rest type bars...they come down fast...and hard. I'm so happy I had my helmet on when my friend brought down the bar. I still saw stars but boy did that save my head. :smashfrea

Btw...what do you prefer? Gondola or ski lift?

[Daneille]

I really like the ones with a foot rest, otherwise I don't like them.
Daneille

[Mike T]

I really like the ones with a foot rest, otherwise I don't like them.

Same here. Nothing like an old footrest-less two-seater to put my feet asleep ::cough:: RAinbow @ Bachelor

[Gleb]

Worst thing about the old heavy foot rest type bars...they come down fast...and hard. I'm so happy I had my helmet on when my friend brought down the bar. I still saw stars but boy did that save my head. :smashfrea

Btw...what do you prefer? Gondola or ski lift?


Ive had the bars come down on my head countless times. Good thing i never go with my helmet. One time it wasn't till half way up when someone decided to put the bar down when i was leaning forward:eek:

I havent been on a gondola for 10 years, my first time skiing and last time time for 7 years or so. I would prolly like them more because they're warmer.

[skategoat]

I'm scratching my head on this one. Why wouldn't you put it down? Uncool? Does it ruin the view of your feet?

Gleb, you never go without a helmet but you don't put your safety bar down?

[Gleb]

well, i believe that putting down the restraining bar is unneccesary because all chairs are designed so that if they are going full speed and then come to a sudden stop, no one will fall out. that is unless someone is leaning forward very far. The chair will tilt back and forth to keep whater is on the chair from falling off.

I wear my helmet because of the icy conditions out here and its saved me countless times from serious injury.

[B18C1]

I usually put it down because it takes about 2 seconds and a half, it's comfortable, and I guess it can be useful in case something happens. There's no big difference wheter you put it down or not, unless you're with children in the chair.:nono:

Edit :: Woohoo! Groomer Groomet..

[NateW]

I do not put the bar down because I am afraid my friends will think I'm a sissy.

[NateW]

Just kidding.

[LeeW]

I do work as an electrician for ski lift construction. I do get nervous when the bullwheel stop as in e-stop and it'd yank the line. so no thanks, i rather remain intact and hanging my arms as armrest on my lift as i enjoy the view of the mountain.

[Galen]

well, i believe that putting down the restraining bar is unneccesary because all chairs are designed so that if they are going full speed and then come to a sudden stop, no one will fall out. that is unless someone is leaning forward very far. The chair will tilt back and forth to keep whater is on the chair from falling off.



....except that is what happened a year or two ago at bachelor, dumped the whole lot off the chair. Cant remeber if it was 4 or 6 people.

[surfinsmiley]

I never actually put it down but some of the ones I`ve been on are all automatic, can be painfull when it is built for people about five foot tall, there`s just not enough room for all my long legs, arms and boards, something always seems to get squashed:smashfrea

I rode a 5.5 kilometre long gondola last week, I was thinking at the time how happy I was it wasn`t a chair.

[tufty]

well, i believe that putting down the restraining bar is unneccesary because all chairs are designed so that if they are going full speed and then come to a sudden stop, no one will fall out. that is unless someone is leaning forward very far. The chair will tilt back and forth to keep whater is on the chair from falling off.

You _believe_ that it is unnecessary.

Having seen a child fall off of our lift, 8-10m onto hardpack[1][2], earlier this season after lifting the bar to adjust leg placement, I'd say you are dead wrong. If there was no need for a safety bar, there wouldn't be one.

Let's look at what constitutes a chairlift...

there's the chair, which is suspended from the cable. The suspension articulates both side to side and front to back, and in theory allows the chair to swing just enough but not too much. However, it has to be damp out the swinging otherwise there would be pools of puke under the entire length of the lift. This damping is accomplished by adjusting the suspension, and sometimes the adjustment slips, either due to worn pieces, cold, or other reasons. The fact that the adjustment has slipped is _not_ obvious to the operator - The lift I work on has one chair that we have to adjust twice daily and the only reason we know about it is because it nearly broke my frickin' leg when I got on, it de-adjusts to a completely rigid state.

The chairs quite often have seat covers on them to make the ride more comfortable. They can also make the chair more slippery.

Next, we have a cable, running over a bunch of pulleys. Depending on the loading of the lift, this rises and falls.

Then we have the main tractor and return pulleys, bastarding great things which can not allow the cable to slip. Either the tractor or return pulley is on a moving base that takes up the slack in the cable as it stretches / loads. the tractor pulley is generally equipped with a big-ass emergency brake.

Then there's the whole drive mechanism, usually an electric motor with a diesel backup. There is a second "normal usage" brake in the drive mechanism.

So, there's the machanism. Now, what happens when it's running?

Let's assume my lift, which is a "pince fixe" lift (i.e. the chairs don't come off the cable). It runs at 2.5 m/s full speed and 1.5m/s slow speed. There are 3 ways in which the operator can stop the lift:

1: Electric stop. This doesn't touch the brakes, instead powers up the phases of the motor to stop it dead. We don't generally use this unless we're doing "precision" positioning work (for example moving the chairs about) as it run a risk of burning out the motor
2: Normal stop. Turns off the motor, and activates the normal brake. This stops the lift fairly gently (roughly 5 to 7m of movement before a complete stop).
3: Emergency stop. Turns off the motor and activates both brakes. This stops the lift fairly rapidly (roughly 3 to 4 metres of movement before complete stop), takes an age to rearm, and generally scares people.

There is another stop, which is the failure mode stop. If the electromechanicals detect that the lift is running too fast, slipping backwards, the gearbox is failing, the cable has overstretched, etc, it slams _everything_. This is basically an emergency stop plus an electric stop, and it stops the lift _dead_. If you're on the lift when this happens, it's terrifying.

This is all pretty much common to all chairlifts, the only real difference between "pince fixe" and "debrayable" lifts apart from the mechanics that hold the chair to the line and the the fact that the chairs come off the line on a debrayable is that a debrayable runs at much higher speeds.

So, your assertion as to the fact it's safe to leave the bar up:

You have an interface between bum and chair that is of an unknown coefficient of friction depending on chair cover, trouser type, and weather condition.

You have a chair that may or may not swing in the way it is intended to. Even in the best case, it doesn't swing completely freely, so there will always be a certain tendency for your trousers to slide on the seat when the lift stops.

When the lift stops, the cable "bounces". Depending on where a chair is on the line, how loaded the line is, and a host of other factors, this may coincide with the forward or rearward swing of the chair, and will affect the coefficient of friction between chair and trouser either in a negative or positive way.

A failure mode stop is immediate, and an emergency stop is near-immediate.

This is why we stop our lift if anyone gets near the first pylon without having pulled down the bar. And having looked on in horror as a child plummeted from the lift, knowing full well that I could do absolutely nothing, I'd ask you, for the good of the mental health of your local lifties, to pull down the bar.

Simon

[1] Without the lift stopping, even
[2] He got off lightly, 2 smashed wrists, one broken leg and a few broken ribs.

[nils]

i'm still astounished that in the country of lawyers there is not bars on every lift!! :)
There is no single lift in the alps without bars and footrests! Even in remote small resorts with lifts from the 60's they have bars and footrests! I remember riding the buttermilk lift with anxiety at the SES... brrrr ( there must be laywers watching the lift with binoculars during daylight just in case no?)..

Why wear a helmet and not use bars?

Nils

[Baka Dasai]

Btw...what do you prefer? Gondola or ski lift?

I don't like gondolas. They seem slower, what with all the mucking about taking off your board and walking up steps, and then doing the reverse at the top.

On chairs I always put the safety bar down. I don't think it actually is safer, but it feels safer. IOW, it's like helmets - you consume the extra safety by taking more risks (leaning out over the bar, fiddling with backpacks etc).

Actually, I believe there's some numbers to show that chairs with safety bars are more dangerous - people are more likely to fall off the chair when putting the bar down or lifting it up than if there was no bar to worry about at all, and people also get caught up in the bar when unloading.

So in litigation-conscious America I imagine the lawyers are telling the resorts to not install safety bars.

[nils]

not sure baka:
if it was safer they would remove the bars everywhere worldwide no?

I think bars are way more safers to have on a lift than no bars!.. The risk of getting caught with the bar is ridiculy small compare to the injuries you would get from falling 30 feet! You cannot really take risks with bars like with helmets going faster: the bar prevents you from falling whatever you try!

no?
Nils

[Baka Dasai]

if it was safer they would remove the bars everywhere worldwide no?

Well, it takes a while for information to filter out, especially when the conclusions from that information are counter-intuitive, such as a safety measure making something more dangerous.


The risk of getting caught with the bar is ridiculy small compare to the injuries you would get from falling 30 feet!

That's not the relevant comparison. You have to compare the death/injury resulting from bar-related falls and accidents with non-bar related falls and accidents. And as for the risk of getting caught by the bar - I've seen that happen dozens of times in my life (clothes etc getting caught while unloading) but I've never seen somebody fall from a chair. There's also the risk of being clonked on the head by the bar as it's being lowered or raised. I've seen that happen a few times.


You cannot really take risks with bars like with helmets going faster: the bar prevents you from falling whatever you try!

People fall off the lift during the process of raising and lowering the bar. If they didn't have to go through that process they'd be less likely to fall off.

I take a perverse pleasure in watching safety measures fail, even as I usually apply those same safety measures myself. The really contentious one is <a href="http://www.geog.ucl.ac.uk/~jadams/PDFs/failure%20of%20seatbelt%20legislation.pdf">seat belts</a>.

[scotts.Scheinman]

i personally dont care but my brother always wants the bar down

[tufty]

People fall off the lift during the process of raising and lowering the bar. If they didn't have to go through that process they'd be less likely to fall off.

Whe people fall off lowering or raising the bar, they are generally not high up and not over hardpack. Here's 4 season's worth of driving a chairlift:

Departure end : I have _never_ seen anyone fall off a lift due to lowering the bar. Fall off due to having their sticks in the wrong place, being complete tools, etc, yes. But never due to lowering the bar.

Arrival end : I've never seen anyone fall when raising the bar. I've seen them fall on debarking due to raising the bar too late, go round the pulley and cause an emergency stop due to not raising it at all, etc. I have _once_ seen someone get caught on the bar. I have seen hundreds of incidents of people getting caught on the rest of the chair, and I only man the arrival end of the lift for an hour a day, at lunchtime when there's nobody about.

What I have seen is an incident of a small child falling 30+ feet onto hardpack due to lifting the bar en route. I never want to see it again.

Basically, and please don't take this personally, but I think you're very, very wrong.

[edit]According the the Syndicat Nationale des Telepheriques de France http://www.sntf.org for the season 2004/2005 there were 15 serious accidents for 702,000,000 passages in the whole of France. At least one of those was a small child trapped and subsequently killed in a 'rolling carpet' travelator that resulted in serious legal consequences for the people responsible (they had turned off the security mechanisms as it kept stopping) and one other was an English child at Chatel who fell 10m from a chairlift onto a grooming machine 25m from the departure. I can't find a full breakdown of accidents, those two were two I remember from last season. Not sure if the helicopter full of pisteurs killed at Chamonix last year in colliion with a lift cable is included in the number.

Here's a video of the typical chairlift accident : http://www.zone-videos.net/video-1034-telesiege-accident.html

And here's one of what you do not want to see. http://tufty.ath.cx/~simon/chairlift.wmv

Simon

[big mario]

Dont even have 'em at loveland, so I don't even think about it.
mario

[nils]

simon i agree...
anyway since most of the lift systems are provided by french ( pomagalski ) or austrian, german or swiss companies, there is good chances bars make it to the US finally after some time !

[Gleb]

too me, it seems that people only really fall off as a consequence of their own actions. For example, the incident where the kid fell into a grooming machine. As tragic as it is, most likely the child was leaning to far forward to observe the groomer. Or when the child fell 10meters onto hardpack without the lift stopping, well that again most likely resulted from the child leaning too far over. Usually when i'm on a lift with children, they put the bar down so they can lean on it.

Most chair lifts ive been on are slanted back so its nearly impossible to slip off, even if the lift comes to a dead stop. I always lean all the way back to get comfortable instead of leaning forward. Usually the fabric is foam which usually has a reletivly high coefficient of friction against my pants compared to nylon.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I always put the bar down with my kids. Their short legs means that they are never sitting back far enough in the chair to be secure.

As far as putting the bar down for myself - not generally. I'll put it down if I need to fiddle with my boots or something.

What ticks me off is people pulling the bar down without warning - that's the riskiest thing of the whole process. They'll sometimes pull that thing down before the skis/boards have even left the platform, risking a leg injury. And of course the ol' helmet clonk happens often - I'm convinced I just don't know how big my head is with my helmet on.

[chadx]

I agree. I use it most of the time if available particularly because it's nice to rest the legs and arms. It is especially nice when a back pack has one creaped forward on the seat. Nice bit of insurance.

Gondola only if it is bitter cold or really snowing. Lifts tend to be faster at getting up the long runs. Plus, the gongola tends to get stuffy and hot on a sunny day, so why not be out in the open air?

[LeeW]

I think this happened out in Crested Butte. Some passenger died because he had a seizure and the bar was not enough to hold him up and slipped and fell.

[Derf]

I'm surprised this is even a poll. For me, bringing down the safety bar is like buckling the safety belt in my car or wearing my helmet for cycling. Seriously, I never see someone not put it down. Well maybe I saw it maybe once or twice in several years. What advantage is there to not bring it down? I'm even more surprised of reading about chairlifts that don't have any!

[needanswer]

anybody know if lifts are "ride at your own risks" ? that might explain why you don't hear about law suits.

I ride with the bar down when I'm alone or with friends.
when I'm sharing the lift with strangers, I'll leave it up to them.

when the bar's not down, I ride with one arm hooking over the back of the seat.

not sure how much either helps. the bars that I've seen, they don't seem secure for children or small adults who can slide out of the seat and under the bar. I guess you'll still have something to hang on to.

also, I've never seen any lifts with footrests. can you rest your board on it? If so, that would be the best reason to put the bar down.

[malymis]

A little out of main topic but something to think about

Europe :
Bar with foot rest.
7 inch thick comfy cushions
Plustic buble - wind protection
recently i have seen one lift with cushions electricly heated

cost of the day little over 30 euros (italy dolomites)


USA

bar (foot rest when you very lucky)

cost of the day 70$ (killington)
________
Tamarax1 (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/Tamarax1)

[LeeW]

A little out of main topic but something to think about

Europe :
Bar with foot rest.
7 inch thick comfy cushions
Plustic buble - wind protection
recently i have seen one lift with cushions electricly heated

cost of the day little over 30 euros (italy dolomites)


USA

bar (foot rest when you very lucky)

cost of the day 70$ (killington)

Oooo! I oughta try to meet up some swedish gal and move to europe. -smirk- but a bit off the subject, too -- As some of you know, I work on the mountain. Snowmobile's a key tool for the operations out here to work. In europe, snowmobiles are not used at all. makes me wonder how they get things moving quickly.

[thomas_m]

Bars seem to be the exception rather than the rule here in Washington. Also, it seems like the really steep gnarly lifts are all rickety old two seaters that sway all over the place... :smashfrea

T.

[Pow]

I'm petrified of slipping out of the lifts... no amount of skill or physical fitness will keep you from shattering every bone in your body after the wind blows you out of your chairlift 70 feet in the air over an insanely steep, rocky, unridable liftline. even on the smaller heights with a gentler landing i keep it down anyway. i like being able to rest my arms on the bar and my board on the footrest below.

and did i read correctly? some lifts have wind protector bubbles? i thought that'd be a good idea, but i never actually saw it in action. i wish the local resorts would buy into the idea!

[Dave Pushee]

If for nothing else, it might catch me if I doze off on a slow chair in the sun :sleep:

[bobdea]

put it down
E stops can stop the lift fast, and to count on a mechanic to have the brake adjusted properly might not be a good idea
this comes from experience
many people come out without help anyway so anything that will help keep you in is your friend

[kjl]

One time on a lift at Squaw I put the bar down, fell asleep, and woke up with my tongue stuck to the bar.

Good news: I didn't fall off and kill myself.
Bad news: my tongue was stuck to the bar.

[malymis]

whole bar thing was never an issue for me. I come from europe, a land were bars without foot rest are not existing. It is a comfort that makes you lower a bar.
Accualy first time when i was carving in east coast it was a small shock that feet were not supported.
________
Volcano Vaporizer (http://volcanovaporizer.net/)

[bobdea]

resorts only do what is legally required and feel that if you fall out its your fault and should you litigate they are covered by their insurence
the ski ares in CO have much better protection from the law than in ME, for that matter at least.

when I was in ME we could not load a chair that did not have a bar on it

[LeeW]

Vail had those bubbles for the lift. Somebody in the upper management decided to ditch 'em, and Aleyska of Alaska bought 'em. They need them more than we do, so it seems.

[Bubba]

It may sound crazy seeing that I am on a lift every day, but I am afraid of heights. If the chair stops, I'm crapping my pants. Yes, the bar is always down.

[Zone]

Here in Ontario, the lifties will actually stop the whole lift if they catch you with the bar down. So if you want to ride up, you don't have a choice.
Years ago I had a cheap pair of slippery snow pants, putting the bar down quickly became a reflex. Nowadays, it's riding up with my kids. Speaking of which, even though I love Tahoe/Kirwood, there is no way I'm going there with my kids and risking them falling off those big towers...

[Marty]

Chairlift 101 : Chair with foot rest. You can kinda see the upside-down "T" coming down from the "restraining bar "... ( Random google image pic. )

http://www.hotelhromovka.cz/images/sjezdovky/29-4sed.JPG

[johnstewart]

I'm scratching my head on this one. Why wouldn't you put it down? Uncool? Does it ruin the view of your feet?

Gleb, you never go without a helmet but you don't put your safety bar down?

I never go without a helmet, but never put the bar down.

At home (Tyrol Basin), it's sort of pointless, the ride is so short.

Elsewhere, I guess it's just force of habit.

[Joe D]

Yeah, I like to hang my arms on the bar.

[carvedog]

I think this happened out in Crested Butte. Some passenger died because he had a seizure and the bar was not enough to hold him up and slipped and fell.

Bad deal. But I personally don't like the bars at all. Feel trapped. PUt my foot on foot rest and it cramps. Dont like them. When my kid is on of course I will put it on.

I saw one kid go down at Big Mtn.on chair 6 (learner chair at the bottom). They had the bar down, kids were leaning on it. Kid sits back, dad raises bar 40 feet from unload. Kid leans for bar, not there and splat on his face from 15 feet.
This is the kicker - while I am doing a primary assessment, dad skis down and yells at the kid. "Get up!!! I told you to quit screwing around."

When I tell him I would like ski patrol to come and check him out. He snarls at me. " I am a doctor and he's fine."

:smashfrea :smashfrea :nono:
Yikes

[bobdea]

bubbles are stupid, they cause many problems with the lifts if they don't close they become like a sail
dopplemayr claims that when they are in the down position that they are no worse than a regular chair in wind but that is not true either
at steamboat when the wind got up to 35 or so the mechanics would get nervous, at sunday river on the same type of lift with much wind speeds but without the bubbles we will run the lift well into the 40s

[D-Sub]

if you fall out its your fault

bam

issue solved. period.

sorry tufty, but you're scolding grownups here...the long rants and condescending tone are a bit much!

[BobD]

So many skiers and boarders come from very small hills, where there is no bar or it does not seem worth putting down for 2 mins. Also it's like seat belts in cars - it won't happen to me or maybe " I know a guy who was caught by an avalanch because he had the bar down".
Saw a kid being carted off having fallen 20 ft (7M) from a chair today. Seemed it may only be a concussion.

BobD

[bobdea]

bam

issue solved. period.

sorry tufty, but you're scolding grownups here...the long rants and condescending tone are a bit much!

D-Sub, I said that but you take it out of context, **** can happen that is out of control of the rider on the lift and just because the ski area does not have them on a lift does not mean they would not save your life in some situations
the way I see it is all lifts should have them because I have been on lifts when the **** has hit the fan or in one case the chair hit the tower

[LeeW]

Oh! Chair hitting the tower. That's REAL scary. I get that sometimes at fixed grip chairlift out at Snowmass. I truly HATE it when I am gripping my hands white on my knuckles as my chair swings a bit too much that it barely miss the tower.

[D-Sub]

of course people SHOULD use them, but the way some folks are scolding others here...it just got a little out of hand.

most of the stories here people fell off the lift because they were being stupid.

[Chris Houghton]

[QUOTE=drzone]Here in Ontario, the lifties will actually stop the whole lift if they catch you with the bar down. So if you want to ride up, you don't have a choice.

BIG typo there - the bar must be down or they will stop the lift. Safety regs that make sense. They will actually stop the whole lift if they catch you with the bar UP. I don't want those 'mericans to think we live in a lawless backwoods up here.

[Gleb]

One time on a lift at Squaw I put the bar down, fell asleep, and woke up with my tongue stuck to the bar.

Good news: I didn't fall off and kill myself.
Bad news: my tongue was stuck to the bar.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[alakata]

i put it down when im tired as a footrest

[Zone]

Euh thanks Chris, not sure what I was on....

[tufty]

of course people SHOULD use them, but the way some folks are scolding others here...it just got a little out of hand.

most of the stories here people fell off the lift because they were being stupid.

Well, I wasn't trying to scold, merely pointing out the dangers that you don't necessarily see as a user of a chairlift rather than as the person responsible for a chairlift.

It amuses me[1] that people will insist on using helmets, largely because of the perceived danger from other slope users, but find it acceptable to fail to use the provided safety equipment where they personally can't see the danger. Believe me, the danger is there - whether it's a moment's inattention on your part or the part of the people on the lift with you, a technical failure, meterological conditions or some combination of any / all, the danger is there, and just as real as the danger of having some out of control obliviot slam into the back of your head with the tips of his/her skis.

According to the Sunday edition of the Dauphine Libere, another kiddie had a fall from a lift over this side of the pond a few days back, in another resort to the one I work on. 2 smashed vertebrae, currently in critical condition. Yes, the bar was up.

If you choose to ride with the bar up - fine, as long as you don't do it on my lift[2] and don't put anyone else in danger by doing so. Personally, I think it's a stupid thing to do, but that's only my opinion.

Simon

[1] I do, however, have an "odd" sense of humour
[2] or at least, if you do, that you pull the bar down and then lift it back up where I can't see you, as I am legally obliged to stop the lift if I see you with the bar up.

[D-Sub]

simon..thing is...it seems to me that the majority of people that fall do it while being stupid ie not sitting still, leaning back into the chair?

in your experience, the falls youve seen or heard of, how many were due to irresponsible behavior vs "other"?

heh...also...I had my bell rung TWICE last year by people dropping the bar without warning, so even the bar itself is dangerous!

[tufty]

in your experience, the falls youve seen or heard of, how many were due to irresponsible behavior vs "other"?

Like I said before - a momentary lapse. I'm not disagreeing with you that at least the majority of accidents happen due to user misuse, but it's not necessarily stupidity. Inattention, lack of education in how to use the lift itself, inability to see the danger, not often sheer stupidity.

The kiddie that dropped off my lift did so because he moved when the adult accompanying him had lifted the bar. But kids do move. So do adults. With the bar down, those kids run almost zero risk of an unexpected freefall experience. I'd suggest it would be close to impossible for a concious adult[1] to fall off a chair with the bar down.

Had another near one at the beginning of the season. Father with young (6 or so) child. Rather than teaching child how to use lift properly, father bodily lifts child as chair approaches. Manages to get the rear of child's skis stuck between the bottom of the seat and the frame of the chair. This is putting quite a bit of tension on the skis, the kiddie is having trouble sitting down, father has pulled the safety bar down. I've seen what's happened, and have slammed the stop button, am running down to try and unjam the kid's skis when the father starts raising the bar. Of course, the kid's skis are trying to catapult him out of the chair and face down into the snow, he's screaming for his father to stop, I'm screaming for his father to stop, I arrive and hang onto the footrests to stop him doing it. Explain situation, unjam skis, all is well. 2 seconds later and the kid would most likely have a bloody nose (at least).


heh...also...I had my bell rung TWICE last year by people dropping the bar without warning, so even the bar itself is dangerous!

Nope. Not the bar. That's down to misuse again. I assume it was footrests and not the bar itself - to get clouted by the actual bar on my lift would require you to be either about 9 feet tall or leaning so far forward that you would have fallen out of the chair in a stop situation anyway :)

We see quite a few 'obliviots' who go through the gate, then stand rigid at the end of the runway, staring forward despite the shouts of "mind the chair". Quite a good proportion of them get a good belt on the noggin from the frame of the chair, which has a tendency to make you sit down and rub the back of your head. Maybe they should claim the chair is dangerous and needs redesigning?

Simon

[1] It's possible for pedestrians or "tired" skiers to use our lift to come down, but if you're drunk or badly injured, you can't go down without signing a waiver for exactly that reason.

[D-Sub]

what you call other things I call stupidity, Simon. different words, different views?

if someone cant see the inherent danger in a moving chair hanging up to 50 feet in the air, they are stupid.

kids are slightly excepted, of course, but then they should have adults (who are too often stupid)

;)

anyway...I like the footrests, so bar down is cool by me. and maybe youre right thats what conked me in the head last year. twice.

[tufty]

what you call other things I call stupidity, Simon. different words, different views?

if someone cant see the inherent danger in a moving chair hanging up to 50 feet in the air, they are stupid.

Oblivious. Personal security bubble. Not necessarily stupid in my view, just not really concious of what they are doing. There's levels of that, of course. Not paying attention to a chairlift is one thing, taking completely inexperienced (i.e never been on skis / snowboards ever) learners up to an area of a resort where they will hit reds / blacks is another, skiing off-piste on a black flag day where if you trigger a slide it will hit a slope is completely another. Proportions are different, too - the first is probably 50% of our users, the second we see about 5 cases a week, and the latter I saw yesterday.

You're right about the kids, with the exception that, once shown how to do it and left to their own devices, kids generally manage to get on and off lifts better than their parents :)


and maybe youre right thats what conked me in the head last year. twice.

You need a helmet :)

/ducks

Simon

[D-Sub]

You need a helmet :)

/ducks

Simon

no crap, huh! what really got me was, the first time...it PISSED me off...I actually saw stars and I yelled at the guy, and

no one said anything. not him, not his wife. they never said a single word.

[Skwalleur]

well, i believe that putting down the restraining bar is unneccesary because all chairs are designed so that if they are going full speed and then come to a sudden stop, no one will fall out. that is unless someone is leaning forward very far. The chair will tilt back and forth to keep whater is on the chair from falling off.

I wear my helmet because of the icy conditions out here and its saved me countless times from serious injury.

I don't get this one either. I've never actually been on any lifts without one, but I've been happy to have used the safety at the time when an emergency stop once almost threw me out of the chair.

But most of all, I find it very strange that they are so rare in the US than here in Europe. I usually find your culture with warning signs on literally everything, and "sign-here-so-you-won't-sue-us-forms" for every other potentially hazardous activity more likely to have safety bars than the Laissez-faire attitude of say, the French.

[kinpa]

Well, I would ALWAYS put the bar down if we had one!!! I've been in Montana for 4 years now and I still hate not having one! We've got two chair lifts at the mountain where I teach (both doubles) and the upper one is the kind with the pole in the middle. Boy, was the wierd to get used to! I love being able to rest my feet and now that I've got a 4 year old daughter riding the lift it even makes me more nervous! I always put a vest on her with a handle on the back (www.kid-ski.com) and hold on to her the whole way up. The vest is designed for getting little ones on the lift so they don't have to slow it down, but I don't let go once she's on!

[Gleb]

Yesterdey at my local mountain, the lift came to an emergency brake instantly. (it was doing that all night, defintly pissing everyone off) That was probably the most ive seen a chair sway. I was up there for a good 5 minutes without moving and this gave me a chance to really inspect the lift and how they made it safer.

The seat is angled back so it kind of forces you to lean back. Also, the seat cover is relitivly high frictionl rubber. At least with my pants, it would make it a chore to fall off. I did then notice that most little kids are not able to actually lean back because their legs are too short. I can defintly see how kids can easily fall off. I didn't notice one parent that didn't put the bar down for their kids which is a good thing.

I'm defintly not against the restraining bar, i just find it easier to just put my hand around the back of the chair and relax on the way up. When i get on the lift with reletivly small kids and they don't put it down, i put down because i should be the "responsible adult."

[Dr D]

I think it was Mt Bachelor that had windshields on the quad bars. very cool since thirty miles an hour is usually cold. I think the windshields would encourage use of the bars. I am tall and some tool pulls the bar down without warning :angryfire :angryfire . common courtesy people announce the lowering of the bar prior to doing so. I have noticed that jibbers often don't put the bars down due to the sideways nature of the board conflicting with the footrests.

[Mike T]

I think it was Mt Bachelor that had windshields on the quad bars. very cool since thirty miles an hour is usually cold. I think the windshields would encourage use of the bars. I am tall and some tool pulls the bar down without warning :angryfire :angryfire . common courtesy people announce the lowering of the bar prior to doing so. I have noticed that jibbers often don't put the bars down due to the sideways nature of the board conflicting with the footrests.

Nope, no windshields at Bachelor. Although we could really use 'em on a few of the lifts. Sun Peaks, BC has them on a few of the lifts.

[D-Sub]

steamboat had the bubble on the Storm Peak lift when I was living there...

no idea if they do now.

that part was bitchin. really nice to get relief from the wind both for keeping warm, AND for recreational purposes.

[LeeW]

that part was bitchin. really nice to get relief from the wind both for keeping warm, AND for recreational purposes.

hahaha, locals dont call vista bahn "rasta bahn" for no good reason. -smirk-

[D-Sub]

ganjola

[Pow]

what types of chairs have these bubbles? many eastern resorts have started a high speed quad (and even a six) trend... yeah, most of us arent very patient, but anyway do you think the bubbles would still work on the high speed chair system? (high speed chairs i find are almost always closed when its windy, making your trip to the top a bit of a hike)

[bobdea]

dopplemayr detaches
I hope to never see them in the east, its generally a little bit more windy here and this would cause issues
most resorts regret buying the bubbles because they are quite expensive to replace and maintain, since in the east so much money is put into snowmaking there is a smaller profit margin anyway so again I would doubt that you will see them any time soon