First batch of biodiesel

[Hugh]

Totally OT,

I cooked up my first 22 gallon batch of biodiesel last night :AR15firin . After a couple of days of settling, then I will transfer to my wash tank for a few water washes, then drying...then into my F-250 diesel :biggthump :biggthump

Anyone else brewing? Driving diesel cars/trucks?

--Hugh

[Speedzilla]

I wish there were more diesels to coose from in the US.

Jeep has got a rumored 4 door Wrangler in the works and there was mention of them using a diesel motor.

Keep us updated on the Biodiesel project.

Where are you getting your "fuel"?

[Eric]

For minute there I thought I was on the wrong website.
I burn Bio pretty much exclusively in my VW. It's readily available here
in Portland, so I have no real desire to make my own. I'm
curious what your source of grease is. The stuff I buy is made
from Kettle potato chip fryer oil.
http://www.kettlefoods.com/index.php?cID=227

[Hugh]

I have a 100% corn oil source from a restaurant that only cooks tempura in it. They change it twice a week. I get 8-10 gallons a week and pickup once per week.

My truck is a 1991 F-250 7.3L, 5 speed with 152K miles http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/schugh/blue1.jpg

--Hugh

[Sinecure]

Hugh,

Can you get those stickers that allow you to run in the HOV lane if you run Bio Diesel in that thing? Does the truck smell like a Japanese restaurant if I follow you down the road? :p

What's involved in "brewing" biodiesel? Do you steal filters from work to get the crud out of the oil?

[Gecko]

I wish there were more diesels to coose from in the US.

Jeep has got a rumored 4 door Wrangler in the works and there was mention of them using a diesel motor.

Keep us updated on the Biodiesel project.

Where are you getting your "fuel"?

Jeep has the Liberty 2.8LCRD, I've got 8500 miles on mine. The new 2007 Wrangler was supposed to get the CRD in Rubicon trim but I think they had issues with the axles that they wanted or some such excuse. It also looks like the new Gladiator (if they build it) will get the 2.8L CRD as the stock motor. Next years Grand Cherokee is supposed to get a 3.0L CRD The Liberty Forum (www.lostkjs.com) that I belong to has a bunch of folks who use Bio. I noticed the difference when I had a tank of BioWillie in mine, however there isn't much of a selection for Bio in southern R.I. (closest is in Warwick about 45 miles away though they do deliver) and I'm not interested in brewing my own, though I may spring for a fuel oil tank in a year or two and fill it with B100 to tank mix.

[Speedzilla]

Gecko, what kind of MPG are you getting?

[Hugh]

No bio stickers that I know of that let me cruise in the fast lane, but I'll check into it. The "Man" would rather tax me for not buying his fuel.

Yes, my truck will smell good :D , as it is now, it still smells like regular diesel :barf:

To make my batch last night, I heated up 86 liters of filtered (20 micron) waste veggie oil (WVO) in my homemade converted electric water heater (Appleseed processor), then pumped in 860 grams of potassium hydroxide dissolved in 5 gallons of methanol. Mixed for 90 minutes, now it is settling for a couple of days. Next step is to drain off the glycerine byproduct, then water wash the biodiesel fuel, filter and dry, then pour into my truck. No conversions to the truck needed to run biodiesel.

I bought some particle filters from Grainger.com, also bought my oil pump and suction tube from them too.

Thanks for sharing my excitement :D

Hugh


Hugh,

Can you get those stickers that allow you to run in the HOV lane if you run Bio Diesel in that thing? Does the truck smell like a Japanese restaurant if I follow you down the road? :p

What's involved in "brewing" biodiesel? Do you steal filters from work to get the crud out of the oil?

[Gecko]

Gecko, what kind of MPG are you getting?

on Diesel 2 and B20 I got about 25-27mpg, here in New England on "Winter Diesel" I get about 20mpg. that should improve when they stop adding so much D1 to the mix in 2 months or so. BTW this mileage is city and hiway as my driving is about 50% each; I always warm up the engine before driving as it just behaves better. I love the grunt my Libby has when leaving a stoplight.

[D-Sub]

would love to convert to something like this, but...hugh...it seems that its damn near impossible, of not at the very least highly unproductive to have to through all that every time you need 20 gallons, especially at only 20ish mpg?

the idea of not spewing out deadly junk is :1luvu: but the work necessary to get there just seems, well, more than is feasible.

hmmmm...business idea! open BioDiesel fuel stations!

[Hugh]

I held off for a few years, thinking that it wasn't worth my time commitment vs. implied cost savings. As it turns out, the biodiesel people are very nice/friendly people, not just a bunch of dopers. Funny that once people know you are making it, the hippies start coming around. My three dogs and a few padlocks will deter them at my house.

Diesel fuel is pretty cude nasty stuff, biodiesel smells good, lubricates better and is fun to talk about.

Some co-op groups have some people that do the collecting and another that does the brewing. Some use biodiesel to run their diesel generators to produce the fuel and also cut down on electricity.

I also have new friendships with the people at the restaurant that I pickup from.

All good,

Hugh


would love to convert to something like this, but...hugh...it seems that its damn near impossible, of not at the very least highly unproductive to have to through all that every time you need 20 gallons, especially at only 20ish mpg?

the idea of not spewing out deadly junk is :1luvu: but the work necessary to get there just seems, well, more than is feasible.

hmmmm...business idea! open BioDiesel fuel stations!

[Gecko]

would love to convert to something like this, but...hugh...it seems that its damn near impossible, of not at the very least highly unproductive to have to through all that every time you need 20 gallons, especially at only 20ish mpg?

the idea of not spewing out deadly junk is :1luvu: but the work necessary to get there just seems, well, more than is feasible.

hmmmm...business idea! open BioDiesel fuel stations!

I'm surprised at you D-Sub you went immediatly to the negative and didn't even try to to understand what I meant when I said that I have a 5MPG loss in Winter Diesel. Beside I don't expect to have the motor broken in for another 15K-20K miles and my mileage should be better. If you want to be reallyGREEN get a VW TDI...then your gonna get at least 45MPG city and you can run BIO. As for selling BioDiesel, Bio Willie (http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/) is looking for partners. B100 usually increases mileage a few MPG (sometimes as much as 20%) but it's only really good in warm weather (well warm in comparison to New England) it gels when it gets too cold. This is the same reason that Diesel 1 is added to Diesel 2 during the winter months and why mileage in all diesels falls off in the winter and increases in the summer. Gel point and cetane number (think octane for diesel) are related, high cetane means that you will have good mileage but as it gets cold your gas tank will gel...this holds for both Bio and D2.

[Gleb]

I wonder what the mpg for the jeep rescue will be with the bio desiel. Thats me way back in the day (2-3 years ago:) )

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/gleb86/2228947120061284327USXXjk_ph.jpg

[D-Sub]

I'm surprised at you D-Sub you went immediatly to the negative and didn't even try to to understand what I meant when I said that I have a 5MPG loss in Winter Diesel.

:confused:

jeez gecko..I didnt realize I sounded that serious. the focus of my point was the effort involved in obtaining or making the stuff...the MPG "loss" was secondary imo.

but hell...Im drivin a 94 explorer that gets 15-17 max. thats a joke if you ask me.

Hugh. will check that link. thanks!

[Dr D]

I've played with biodiesel. a little more for power generator than for a truck.
fifty gallon drum full of any vegetable oil prefiltered. a quart of alcohol and a cup or so of lye. give it a good stir with a paddle and let it sit till it seperates into glycerin and fuel. works great a little faster if you heat it with heat tape around the barrel. the biggest gain is in engine life the lubricant properties are better by far than the low sulphur stuff at the pump. we run it in a single cylinder china diesel engine attached to a generator. relatively free power. I have seen ready made setups you can buy on line to do a more precision job and get better yield etc. Also a conversion to the motor that will let you burn vegie oil without converting it.
I got no problems running normal fuel I just hate paying three bucks a gallon for it:eplus2:

[kipstar]

Over here in Thailand, most of the road pick ups (and Thailand is the world's second biggest market for pickups after you guys) are diesel, so the King of Thailand has been pushing bio diesel. I think they use palm oil and coconut oil.

He actually invented some process to do it with coconut I think.

Here, they also have stuff called gasahol, which is petrol also using bio degraded stuff at about 15% and 85% normal petrol.

And we also have NGVs at the moment. Traffic here is pretty bad, so the smog and gases are chronic (and that is not Dr Dre ChRoNiC)

Both better for the environment, although natural gas I think is better again. In fact if you wanted to really look after the environment, I suspect that a natural gas vehicle is probably the best and only requires the installation of the tank,but then what to do about filling it if there aren't filling stations?

So.... how come the restaurants will give you the cooking fat to do this... because here most of the cooking fat gets collected and recycled into something or rather.... do you get that bit for free?

I might have to teach the village to do this, as it would save some money, especially for diesel generation.....

[Dr D]

well tell us how it ran man. How did it turn out?

[D-Sub]

Im wondering...

would one be able to set up their own "refinery" and pump system at home? that would be badass.

store the veg oil, process as much as you can, when you can, and have yourself a nice storage tank and hell, even a pump, just like a regular fuel station.

heh. dreamin.

I really really like this idea though...for a variety of reasons...

[Gleb]

and then you can eventually sell it to your neighbors. When you pay off the equipment, a 100% profit business :biggthump

[Dr D]

there are several small scale setups one can buy online. that make 40-50 gallon batches. Any large storage tank would work for storing it. the processors include filter system mixing and settlling tanks. it doesn't take long. the hardest part is finding a restaurant that will give you their old oil. In someplaces no big deal. others you will have to fight six hippies for a share of the goo. I know of several farm operations in the south that grow peanuts and press the oil onsite. they burn the shells for ash to make lye and ahem probably come up with there own source of alcohol to. they produce enough to run all the deisel farm equip for a year. they use the old drum and paddle technique. There is also a conversion kit you can get that will allow you to run straight vggie oil without conversion. you just have to filter the frenchfries out first.:lol:

[Gecko]

Im wondering...

would one be able to set up their own "refinery" and pump system at home? that would be badass.

store the veg oil, process as much as you can, when you can, and have yourself a nice storage tank and hell, even a pump, just like a regular fuel station.

heh. dreamin.

I really really like this idea though...for a variety of reasons...

Yes it can be done, any fuel oil tank (like for a furnace) can be used for the final product storage. A pump is real simple, there are numerous farm fuell pumps available. As for the refinery (http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html) it can be done fairly simply...a garage can store all of your equipment, supplies and finished fuel

[D-Sub]

OK...Im stockpiling info now. When I do finally own land and a house, I think Im going to look into pulling this off.

another way to escape the clutches of THE MAN

:)

[Hugh]

Pics coming soon...

My fuel shed looks like many backyard biodiesel processing sheds. A friend of mine has a large barn for brewing biodiesel and she has one of those "fuel pumps" like D-Sub is asking about...I'll get a picture of that too.

There are a few yahoo biodiesel groups. My particular Santa Cruz group is pretty quiet, but many others have 2-10 email exchanges per day.

Right now, the cold weather is slowing things down for me. I'm still in the process of water washing and since it is my first time, mistakes are common.

I should have the washing done this weekend and then drying the fuel next week. I'm going to start another batch next weekend after I see how the washing turns out.

--Hugh

[bobdea]

is it the same as drying ethanol?
as in useing a molecular seive?

D-sub, for your current gas guzzler you could probably add some dried ethanol, very easy to make and if you put in a little TLC along with a clean up run the purest neutral spirit you are likely to ever drink
if you have ever brewed beer you have the experience for the harder part of making alc for fuel
since it would not be for drinking you could probably find some sort of waste meterial so the food for the yeast would be next to free
even if you use corn sugar bought in 50 lb pound bags at retail you could probably make ethanol for around 1.50 a galon
a wood fired fractionating still or reflux still could do most of the work for distilling
pretty much all cars can run with no problems with 15% ethanol in the fuel, with some minor tweaks up to 85%
some new cars have a sensor that detects what fuel you are using so they run just fine with no mods with E85% or whatever else you throw in there

BTW it is legal to produce ethanol for fuel purposes, and the myth about dieing/going blind from drinking homebrewed 'shine is just that
what used to happen is people would drink denatured ethanol that was sold during prohibition, that stuff would kill you, in fact it was meant to

to produce ethanol for fuel you are supposed to get a permit but few people do and as long as you don't give 'shine to the local youths no one will bother you unless you live next door to some mormons or something
here is a link on the subject http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/

what sucks about bio fuels are they are hardly worth the energy input at this current time, at least on a large scale, sure hope that changes though

[Gecko]

maybe that's true with ethanol but most Biodiesel (here in the USA) is made from the waste oil left over after Soybeans are refined for animal feed. However that said if the amount of biodiesel needed grows Soy beans wouldn't be able to provide enough oil economicly. There is talk of algee farming as being not only economicly feasible but actually cheap and a huge profit margine per acre used. The issue is that big oil isn't interested, E85 requires gas so it's something they will agree to.

[bobdea]

would be great, from my understanding all you need is water and some flat land in a warm climate
could be great for african countries or anyplace in a arid climate that is close to the ocean
for large scale use going to grain really just does not make sence but hopefully this (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060304/ap_on_sc/cow_dung_gasoline) will work out well along with a few other methods and we will be alright

[Hugh]

is it the same as drying ethanol?
as in useing a molecular seive?

Washing is done by bubble washing or misting. 3-4 washes are required to clean the excess methanol, soap, etc. Drying is just letting the fuel sit for a few days for the water to settle out and produce clear fuel with no water.

I couldn't wait for my fuel to be ready, so I bought a tank of commerical biodiesel. Smells good and the engine sounds quieter.

Cold weather sucks for trying to speed up the process,

Hugh

[tdinardo]

OK...Im stockpiling info now. When I do finally own land and a house, I think Im going to look into pulling this off.

another way to escape the clutches of THE MAN

:)

The Man will still get his share. You owe road tax on the stuff you brew after something like 400 gallons (I forget the exact number). Most of the BD supply sites reference the tax ramifications. I think if you were brewing from first source materials, you'd run the risk of pissing The Man off.

I've been looking into doing this after I get my new digs set up - i'm getting tired of the $80-90 fill-up bill for my dually.:freak3: I'm planning to avoid the waste oil method since the risk of producing bad batches is too high for my tastes, and then you have to deal with HazMat issues for disposal. Not worth the trouble when you can work with fresh oil and never have that issue and still be out the door for a bit more than $1 per gallon in quantity.

My $.02....

[Hugh]

Virgin oil is one way to go. You will still have glycerin to deal with. I think most people go with waste oil because it is free vs. buying virgin oil.

Another option is a straight veggie oil system without the biodiesel hassles. Price of virgin oil is only slightly less than regular diesel fuel.

Lots of my time and effort running around to collect the oil and bring home and filter, etc. This is my first 3 months of experience, so everything is getting easier with time. At first I was hand pouring the 15 gallon drum over my knee into my 5 gallon totes, now I use a rotary pump (100 times easier). I've got so much waste oil saved up (150 gallons), that I'm selling it to other people that run on straight veggie oil.

Lots to learn, Hugh

[carvedog]

Got interested in this when I read that Henry Ford and George Washington Carver worked on a project for bio fuels in the thirties.

Have a friend up here with a suburban running grease.

INteresting thread.

[Hugh]

This morning, I checked my 1st batch clarity after the second wash and it is looking excellent :biggthump , I finally got all of the creamy white stuff out of it.

Tonight, I'll drain off this 2nd wash water and bubblewash it two more times this weekend.

I'll try to post some pics this weekend,

Hugh

[Maciek]

If you use diesel with modern fuel injector then you need to realize that proper mixture is needed to lubricate injectors and get proper injection. This is almost the same as with leaded and unleaded gasoline fuel (although in the case valve sockets had to be hardened for "harder" combustion given by non lubricaing unleaded gas).

Also if you want to play with deposits in your combustion chambers then go ahead. That home made fuel will not help diesel engine to run next 200k miles before main overhaul.

Until I do not know what tolerance of engine is I would not cook oil myself if I wanted engine to last... Also diesel fuel injectors are not that inexpensive parts I guess.

[Gecko]

but B20 is very very good for your diesel engine's injectors. Some of the scuttlebut from truckers online is that B100 is awesome for their engines. historicly TDI's run great on homegrown BIO BTW YMMV

[Dr D]

If you use diesel with modern fuel injector then you need to realize that proper mixture is needed to lubricate injectors and get proper injection. This is almost the same as with leaded and unleaded gasoline fuel (although in the case valve sockets had to be hardened for "harder" combustion given by non lubricaing unleaded gas).

Also if you want to play with deposits in your combustion chambers then go ahead. That home made fuel will not help diesel engine to run next 200k miles before main overhaul.

Until I do not know what tolerance of engine is I would not cook oil myself if I wanted engine to last... Also diesel fuel injectors are not that inexpensive parts I guess.


hogwash

The home made variety is better than the current low sulphur low emissions diesel on the market. they have removed the lubricants because they cause emissions. Just like they removed lead from gasoline. the biodiesel being discussed has natural lubricant properties and has proven itself in the past to in fact increase the life of the engine.

[Hugh]

FYI: Home brewed biodiesel is better than commerical biodiesel and also commerial dino-diesel...if you can produce a quality product that has been made correctly, properly filtered and dried.

Today is day 2 after my final bubble wash on Sunday: my fuel clarity is looking very good, so by this weekend I can filter it through my 10 micron fuel filter, then pour into my fuel tank.

Looking forward burning my bio-homebrew this weekend,

Hugh

p.s. Injectors for my 91 F-250 are $26 each. My injectors and injection pump are both original at 150K miles :biggthump

[Jon Dahl]

B100 is known to be hard on fuel lines and tanks (acidic), how much I'm not sure of yet, but in a few years we will all know! Properly done biodiesel mixes will not harm injectors, they will in fact be better for injectors. Sulfer does not provide lubrication, there is something about it though that holds lubricity in the fuel, and taking it out takes out the ability of the fuel to hold that property. Hugh, your injectors are cheap, don't buy a Powerstroke, those injectors new, which is the only way to buy them, are over $300.00 each! Injector deposits like Maciek is talking about usually is from polluted fuel so filter well, and use good base stock. If you need a fuel additive for lubricity in standard diesel, I highly recommend Stanadyne diesel additive, it's the one I know works. Oh, and if anyone here needs help diagnosing a Powerstroke, pm me and I'll see what I can do.

[Hugh]

Hey Jon,

Thanks for the insight. A friend was trying to talk me into buying their 2002 Powerstroke, too much money and complicated mechanics, but it is a cool big sled to stomp around town in...

www.thedieselstop.com is one of my favorite websites for all Ford diesel trucks.

I gotta get some pics up soon,

pic 1: me builiding my Appleseed processor
pic 2: my 91' F-250 7.3L diesel, 5 speed manual

Hugh

[Jon Dahl]

Keep us up to date as you go, I'm interested in this. I've got an old '82 Audi 4000 diesel car that I took last week to splitfest in Utah. 2000 mile round trip. Powerstroke diesels require a scan tool to do any in-depth diag work. Autoenginuity software (pro version $900+your laptop) is the best laptop based unit I have seen. The factory scan tool is better but who has $2500 + dollars? I like simple!

[Eric]

B100 is known to be hard on fuel lines and tanks (acidic), how much I'm not sure of yet, but in a few years we will all know!

This isn't so much of an issue with newer cars that have Viton fuel lines.
If you run BioD in a older diesel with rubber fuel lines, it is recommended you
swap them for Viton. Rubber lines have been known to degrade after just a couple tanks of BioD. But I've run 15k miles on the stuff without a single issue.

[Hugh]

Update: I'm starting to wonder if my bio would ever clear up, so I decided to test the pH of my final wash water. Sure enough, wash water 8.2, my tap water 7.4 :smashfrea

There is still more KOH to wash out. The washing is finished when both pH numbers are the same :freak3:

Still washing,

Hugh :AR15firin

How about another pic?

[Gleb]

that sucks. Does a problem like that happen often? also, love the shirt.

[Hugh]

No, my process is slow because I'm a newbie and this is my first attempt.

My son and I went to the "This Is Skateboarding" screening a while back and he won that free shirt. Too bad for him that it was size Large, he gave it to me.

Check out these other skate shirts. I have the red Monk and white Sims Hosoi.

--Hugh

[Eric]

any updates on this project?

[Hugh]

Sorry carvers, I haven't visited BOL in a few weeks...

My homebrew biodiesel is rocking for sure. My truck is running a 50/50 blend of dino and bio with improved smell and a quiet engine.

Truck update: my 1991 F-250 is a great truck and also pretty easy to work on since it has plenty of room to work around the engine and everything is mechanical instead of computer controlled. Last week, I put brand new battery cables in (heavy duty for sure), because my 15 year old cables were toasted (cracked, split, corroded). My truck uses two big batteries with 875 CCA's each. Anyway, new cables, then new batteries (thanks Ford for the 3 year free replacement on my 2 year old batteries). I took my truck out for a victory lap and the voltage gauge was at 18 volts :mad: , it should be around 14 volts, so drove it home and figured out that the voltage regulator was toast, $40 for that...now its all good :1luvu:

Now that the weather is warm and the rain has stopped, making biodiesel is so much easier than when I did it this winter. In fact, it is so much easier, why bother with winter brewing at all? just make it during the dry/warm part of the year and store it for winter use.

Anybody else have a Ford diesel? If so, check out www.thedieselstop.com

--Hugh

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Hey Tom, I have two emails for you and they are both bouncing?
Just wanted to let you know you are a winner in the "World's Fastest Indian" DVD Contest. Mark of winterstick.org one the Logo contest and his has been mailed. Please send your shipping address so I can get your's on the way.

Sorry for butting into this thread. Just trying to reach Tom to give him the good news. Thanks everyone!

[Hugh]

I filtered 12 gallons tonight and poured it in...smells great, runs great, less $$. Without counting my time, fuel costs about $1.25 a gallon.

As soon as I empty this current batch, I'll brew up another...

--Hugh :AR15firin

[Gleb]

you guys see the "addicted to oil" segment on the discovery channel the other night? it was pretty interesting. The plug in hybrid giving alver 100mpg. Well if you have a solar powered house, that car is a dream come true.

[P06781]

any updates on this project?

Yes Eric , lets get moving on our own bio-diesel project, it cant be that hard. Hugh did you buy a parts kit or assemble all the stuff yourself for the processor and wash tank? We are debating which way to go (parts kit or book+DIY). Our vw tdis get a little better mileage than your Pick-up , usaully 38-45 mpg, so each batch will last quite a bit longer.

Check out http://forums.tdiclub.com/

Thinking about this kit http://www.b100supply.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=1&CFID=368897&CFTOKEN=93025749

Jim

[Hugh]

Check out http://www.localb100.com/book.html Girl Mark's book is a great place to start. I wish that she would publish a new book as things are constantly changing.

I bought a complete kit (without electric water heater) and it had lots of "made in China" parts. I setup a 40 gallon heater, I would suggest at least a 50 gallon or even an 80 gallon, check www.craigslist.org in your area (gas water heaters do not work for this).

I usually go out of my way to buy better than China made stuff. There are only a couple of parts that aren't easy to find at the local hardware store and you can buy those online. Another good site is http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com, I hang out regularly at www.thedieselstop.com and lurk on http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/index.php and
http://www.biodieselcommunity.org
http://www.nbb.org
and one of the best http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751

Email me at Dalton_5@sbcglobal.net anytime for additional info or help getting you started. I would get the book and setup a DIY Appleseed. $299 for that kit :eek: someone is making money...and it isn't us :smashfrea

--Hugh :AR15firin