Wild Binding Set-Up (Possible PGS Spoiler)

[Speedzilla]

This photo was on Yahoo! from today's PGS race:

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060222/capt.olyba12402221506.winter_olympics_men_snowboar d_switzerland_tr1_olyba124.jpg

[Kent]

Gasp.....how could someone possibly race at a World Cup level with those wimpy bails!

Imagine how much faster he could be.....

Pretty cool shop project. Snowpro or F2 jerry-rigged to an alum plate and some riders. Looks like a nice set-up...

K

[ar(angel]

Is that some kind of home-made riserplate/conshox type-thingy :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Rob Smith]

Looks like instant driver responce and likewise instant "rut" feedback.
My feet hurt looking at this setup.
Looks like the bros rely on the board alone to stay on the snow.

[eddie]

Gasp.....how could someone possibly race at a World Cup level with those wimpy bails!

Imagine how much faster he could be.....

Pretty cool shop project. Snowpro or F2 jerry-rigged to an alum plate and some riders. Looks like a nice set-up...

K
I imagine the bails were like that for a reason.

Advancements in snowboard technology have to start someplace.

[Bordy]

we saw the same set up last month at the europa cups. Many riders just had F2s screwed to the riser plates.

[Kent]

I imagine the bails were like that for a reason.

Advancements in snowboard technology have to start someplace.


It was a joke to the folks who think stiffer is always better......

[Dr D]

it looks like an edge response thing to me. the bindings do not attach to the middle of the board. all attachment is out close to the edges. the benefits of a riser and direct transmission to the edge. I will let you enginneering types work out the math but it seems like a sound hypothesis to me. I want to know if its got inserts out that far or of the riser is hooked to the normal inserts somehow. it looks empty in the middle to me. screws ala ski style maybe??:confused:

[bschurman]

Hey what kind of boots are the Schoch and some of the other riders wearing? Anyone have any idea?

[Gecko]

Hey what kind of boots are the Schoch and some of the other riders wearing? Anyone have any idea?

The Schoch brothers looked to be wearing AT boots of some kind but I could be wrong

[Justin A.]

I think the Schoch's are wearing Head SP's...not sure though, but thats what they looked like.
________
IOLITE VAPORIZER (http://iolitevaporizer.net/)

[Jack Michaud]

What the heck happened to Bozzetto? Double binding explosion, wha-how!

[bschurman]

What the heck happened to Bozzetto? Double binding explosion, wha-how!

Better two then just one.

[bschurman]

Hey what kind of boots are the Schoch and some of the other riders wearing? Anyone have any idea?

Here is a picture I found on their web site. Anyone?

->Ben

[dano]

Damn! THATS a heel lift!
Actually, it looks like his heel is tweeking up the bail up a bit too.

Is there any online video of Bozzetto's ejection seat test? Too NASTY!

[Bordy]

The boots are northwaves. Josh Wiliey, and Phil Berube use the same boot. Most of the Swiss team wear them.

[eddie]

Gasp.....how could someone possibly race at a World Cup level with those wimpy bails!

Imagine how much faster he could be.....

Pretty cool shop project. Snowpro or F2 jerry-rigged to an alum plate and some riders. Looks like a nice set-up...

K

Woops! Up too late, too little sleep. I see it now.

Bordy

I've got some money comming your way.

[Zone]

Northwaves 950, similar to the 900 on the EC/Swoard site, except with metal latches and stiffer tongue, and yellow of course.
http://www.extremecarving.com/tech/mat.html scroll down half way

[bschurman]

I'm guessing that these are no longer made and can't be found?

[FTA2R]

Jack!

"double binding explosion" hahaha nice! this should go in Scott F's carver lexicon (alpinecarving.com)

[ar(angel]

That's gotta be upwards of 10 degrees or so! Isn't Northwave boots the ones the EC Swoard guys suggest/use? Also, wasn't G. Jaquet the shaper for Wild Duck at one time? I seem to remember seeing his name on the tail of my 158 WC Wild Duck.....? He ended up 8th overall.

?

Paul

[kirtap]

Paul
Yeah, I just happened to read that on the web site from the link from drzone. Right above the picture of the 3 swoards, it says
"It's unfortunately very difficult to find especialy made equipment on the market for extreme carving.

For this reason, we build our own boards (Jacques has been shaper for WILD DUCK snowboards for 1990 to 1994). Despite their allround behaviour, they are the result of more than 10 years of extreme carving exprience."

[Shred Gruumer]

Fudamental but pirate training techniques win!

Seee it the in thing!

RSS :barf:

[dr. sandman]

What the heck happened to Bozzetto? Double binding explosion, wha-how!

Ditto!!?? How exactly does a rider of this level blow out of both bindings at the same time?? Bails not tight enough, or some new syncronized release system?? Anybody have any details??

[NateW]

How exactly does a rider of this level blow out of both bindings at the same time?

From looking at the bindings in that first picture, I think the answer to your question might be: "easily."

I read Kent's comment (how could someone possibly race at a World Cup level with those wimpy bails!) not as sarcasm but as honest surprise that a serious rider would trust their most treasured assets (functioning knees) to such fragile equipment. To say nothing of losing a race because your equipment failed. At least you can decide when and where to tweak out a big method :) but failures tend to happen when you least expect them.

I read about how brand X bindings are popular and famous racer Y just keeps a lot of spare parts on hand, and I just shake my head. It just boggles my mind that top-tier racers compromise safety and reliability. Not that any binding has a 100% perfect record (as far as I'm aware) but still, I just can't imagine.

[roman]

Northwaves 950, similar to the 900 on the EC/Swoard site, except with metal latches and stiffer tongue, and yellow of course.
http://www.extremecarving.com/tech/mat.html scroll down half way

yes, thats true. very old northwaves...

the funky binding plates are 'hangl' plates from skibindings. cut in the middle for one in the front, one in the back and the same ond each side of the board.
and yes, this is for more edge pressure. why not? it worked all the way to the podium...:biggthump 2 medals more for switzerland:1luvu:

[bobdea]

Ditto!!?? How exactly does a rider of this level blow out of both bindings at the same time?? Bails not tight enough, or some new syncronized release system?? Anybody have any details??

with some bindings, I have done it on burton plates and have seen it happen with other brands

[Jack Michaud]

I read about how brand X bindings are popular and famous racer Y just keeps a lot of spare parts on hand, and I just shake my head. It just boggles my mind that top-tier racers compromise safety and reliability. Not that any binding has a 100% perfect record (as far as I'm aware) but still, I just can't imagine.


Someday, one of us freecarvers who has learned how to carve on <i>real</i> bindings is going to decide to race. His coach is going to say, you've got to get rid of those stiff bindings, and you've got to forget that technique and ride like I tell you. And he's going to respond, to hell with those flimsy bindings, and I ride just fine the way I do. And he's going to race his way, and beat up on the other cookie-cutter racers with rubber bands on their feet.

Oh wait, someone already did that and won 5 world championships.

[Zcarver]

Someday, one of us freecarvers who has learned how to carve on <i>real</i> bindings is going to decide to race. His coach is going to say, you've got to get rid of those stiff bindings, and you've got to forget that technique and ride like I tell you. And he's going to respond, to hell with those flimsy bindings, and I ride just fine the way I do. And he's going to race his way, and beat up on the other cookie-cutter racers with rubber bands on their feet.

Oh wait, someone already did that and won 5 world championships.


Agree. I remember those days on the Burton race plates how I was able to have alot of turning flex with the boots. While I am not a racer I can understand why some of the racers are using those types of bindings. As they don't have to deal with the stiffness as they go into the turns.

But curious what they use when they go free-riding. You will put more stress free-carving than racing. So using flimsy bindings are not going to hurt. But you do run the risk of busting the bails if not replace for every 2 or 3 events.

[JJFluff]

I have been using the same burton variplate bindings for about 12 years now. I ride, on average about 50 times a year. So I have used my bindings 600 times, who knows how many runs. I did replace one bail in those 12 years.
Those are some strong rubberbands.

[Phil]

I have been using the same burton variplate bindings for about 12 years now. I ride, on average about 50 times a year. So I have used my bindings 600 times, who knows how many runs. I did replace one bail in those 12 years.
Those are some strong rubberbands.

And how much do you weigh, there junior?:D

Give them to me, they'll be broken by next week. Oh, forget it, can't take chances on my health like that.

[JJFluff]

I way 180pds. And hey, I just turned 30, so junior sounds great to me.
Thanks Jon

[Phil]

Yeah, Jr. was right;), although I meant size, not age. Take it as age though, that probably felt better.

Once I had a binding break, so I ordered Bombers (of course) and in the meantime, I threw an old pair of vari plates - the ones you pictured - on my board. Two runs later - snap! That being said, I am a considerably larger person than you (I'll leave it at that:) - no questions).

[Dr D]

the flex pattern in the variplates is engineered into the long heavy rails running fore and aft the flex doesn't happen at the bails like the newer bindings. they flex all the way back to the mount screws. they may not be the newest design but it is a tougher design than the plastic flexi stuff out there now. I wish you could buy a flexible binding that wasn't made of plastic now. we basically have two choices as big heavy guys. soft plastic designed to max weight of 180 or bullet proof heavy metal tanks that you couldn't bend with a truck. personally I think the inflexibility of the bombers is the weak spot for those of you constantly breaking bails. obviously we need some more growth and some new ideas before we have a wide spread choice in bindings.

[Jack Michaud]

Dr D, have you seen these?
http://www.bomberonline.com/store/accessories/suspension_kit.cfm

JJFluff, there are exceptions to every rule. And then there are freaks. ;) 12yo variplates! That's got to be a world record.

[dillrepair]

it looks like an edge response thing to me. the bindings do not attach to the middle of the board. all attachment is out close to the edges. the benefits of a riser and direct transmission to the edge. I will let you enginneering types work out the math but it seems like a sound hypothesis to me. I want to know if its got inserts out that far or of the riser is hooked to the normal inserts somehow. it looks empty in the middle to me. screws ala ski style maybe??:confused:


yeah, so what about this.. how would i attach them and where do i get those risers? i have an old burton on my board rack and i'm always into projects like this.

this is the only pic of a "hangl" plate i could find
http://ns.spopia-shiratori.co.jp/hamato/image2001/Image67.jpg

[NateW]

Buy lottery tickets before it's too late. :)

I had a pair of what I assume were previous-generation Burtons - same rails and bails, but 5-hole mounting pattern underneath. I rode them for a while, around 10 days I think, then I blew out of both bindings at once. The leash broke too (purely decorative, I tell you) and the board kept going. The bails were all different weird shapes. I switched to Nitros, broke those, bought a second set for spares, broke stuff, fixed stuff, and then remembered about these $250 bindings I once read about and thought were ridiculously expensive... And it hit me that I wasn't saving money buying two sets of $125ish Nitros.

I actually think the rail idea is very clever. If they could mount a decent set of Intec heel receivers and toe bails (read: Bomber or Catek), I'd be interested.

[Dr D]

the rail idea is the most interesting part. I think something could be engineered with tougher bails and the ability to adjust in and out on the rails for more or less flex as desired. sort of an all in one binding. I hadn't seen the suspension system before for the TD2 is it part of the binding package or is it an addon?

[JJFluff]

Jack, I'll bet it is a record, and I can just see the day I put new bindings on a board, having something break and blowing out a knee. The oldschool snowboard gods punishing me.

[Jack Michaud]

I actually think the rail idea is very clever. If they could mount a decent set of Intec heel receivers and toe bails (read: Bomber or Catek), I'd be interested.

No you wouldn't. Unless your name is JJFluff, the rails eventually work-harden and snap.


the rail idea is the most interesting part. I think something could be engineered with tougher bails and the ability to adjust in and out on the rails for more or less flex as desired. sort of an all in one binding.

That was the design intent of the original Burton variplate. You'd be repeating history. Ancient history. For the rails to be durable enough to be safe, they would be heavy and quite ridgid.

The suspension kit is an add-on. You mount it between the board and your existing TD2s, and it adds about a 1/4" of cushion.

[MUD]

No you wouldn't. Unless your name is JJFluff, the rails eventually work-harden and snap.

Ti would work rather well, but they would cost ALOT!

Why not keep the stiff bindings and tune the flex into the boots?
I ride my boots really loose on the rear and more stiff in the front..... But it just trickles down from my soft (really soft) boot days.

[dano]

10+ (?) years ago and the wipeout ended up busting his arm. Then had to wait out the whole windsurfing season. DOHHHHHHHH!

Those coat-hanger abortion bindings are total crap. Period.

[Dr D]

I will definitely be doing the addon kit, looks good.

as to the rail idea the idea isn't bad just the material. there are alloys designed to flex without fatigue for long periods of time and the time is actually engineered in so replacements could be made before damage occurred. specifically, airplane wings flex up and down alot and they don't usually fall off.
Not your garden variety aluminum I am sure but it is out there. we develop new materials regularly for industrial application I am just saying its worth looking into and a little old isn't always bad particularly if the weakness was more material than design. a binding has to flex somewhere and fatigue is going to happen at that point. I am not critisizing the bomber I am just saying that the next step is to engineer the flex back into the equation with the right materials instead of just removing it altogether. I will reserve judgement until I have tried the suspension kit:ices_ange

[MUD]

Really......


Why not just tune the flex into the boots? You could spring the boots cant and we already have the BTS.

I am currently working on a BTS for my furnaces, maybe I'll start working on a spring for the cant as well......

[Jack Michaud]

Why not keep the stiff bindings and tune the flex into the boots?

Bingo.

Having the flex in the bindings is bad, imo, because then the board is moving around independently of your foot. You're not getting feedback from your ankle. Your ankle doesn't know what the board is doing, and it also can't affect the board as, um, effectively.

If the boot is flexing, then so is your ankle. Then you can feel exactly what is going on with the board because the board is positively connected to your foot.

Or maybe this all just goes out the window when riding on race ruts. :confused:

[Derf]

This photo was on Yahoo! from today's PGS race:

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060222/capt.olyba12402221506.winter_olympics_men_snowboar d_switzerland_tr1_olyba124.jpg

I looked a couple of time at that pick and thought to myself: what holds those bindings to the board?
T-nuts?
Screws in epoxy?
Custom insterts?